143 replies to this topic

[retrovirus]

Well you could use the rax svc to scout or the depot to scout because the depot finishes sooner. So at 11 or 12 supply.

I mean 1/1/1 is a solid build until you get 40 speedlings and 20 banelings saying hi and then it doesn't really matter much. I mean, you see what 4 banelings for a supply depot? So 12/16 for a rax or fact?

They could concievably bust your fact or rax down before your starport finishes and unless you have like 12 hellions the ammount of speedlings they can make will have you fucked.

absolutely, but the whole point of that original scout was to modify the build for what you see. If you see the speedlings off a 6pool or banelings, then you wouldnt proceed with the starport. The rax scv is a bit late, especially since it will be closer to 14 than 11 or 12 since the refinery is probably off of 12 or 13.

But 1 or 2 marines, protecting a 2sup1rax wall can stop early lings with an scv repairing. generally the fac comes soon enough given the right map size. But even still, i went for a raxfac wall and got raped because he hid his first 6pool lings so my scout wouldnt see. Got me as my first marine was coming out. Of course the wall wasnt finished...and i lost. But it was just a tricky situation.

[DethFanatic]

It tells you, more then once. I recall.

An Deth, you take a peek at my replays? I've kinda optimised the starting. As much as I can figure.

So it goes;

Make SCV's until 9 supply.

At 9 supply make Rax at your choke.

Make another SCV.

Then while at 10 supply depot.

Make another SCV so 11/11. Make supply depot scv go back to the mineral line second depot finishes. Same with Rax SCV.

When rax finishes you can make a marine and get the orbital command at almost the exact same time.

Then Gas at 12 or 13 when OC finishes.

From there you can either get the second rax wall in. (Which, is easier to afford then the factory and safer incase of early ling/baneling pressure.)

I usually make a few marines too because I find them invaluable when dealing with annoying things like mutas or early pressure.

Problem with 9 rax is that you basically fuck your economy over before the game has begun unless you do serious damage. If you proxy a rax on 10, gas on 10, depot on 11 and do proxy reaper/bunker with good micro you can win a game right there or at least break even/ahead. Going 2 rax like this is a pretty bad idea though. 10 depot 12 rax at wall, 13 gas, 15 OC, 16 depot (in base) 17-18 fac at wall making it ling tight with a rax with tech lab is perfectly safe, you can get a hellion and move the fac onto the tech lab and get igniter. 3-4 hellions > infinity lings/blings trying to come at you bro.

Havent had a chance to check out your replays yet, hopefully will do it soon. If you provide some more recent plays that'd be good.

In other news, http://scoceania.com/appointment-deth had an interview recently, check it out.

[Sir Kyle Aziz]

Problem with 9 rax is that you basically fuck your economy over before the game has begun unless you do serious damage. If you proxy a rax on 10, gas on 10, depot on 11 and do proxy reaper/bunker with good micro you can win a game right there or at least break even/ahead. Going 2 rax like this is a pretty bad idea though. 10 depot 12 rax at wall, 13 gas, 15 OC, 16 depot (in base) 17-18 fac at wall making it ling tight with a rax with tech lab is perfectly safe, you can get a hellion and move the fac onto the tech lab and get igniter. 3-4 hellions > infinity lings/blings trying to come at you bro.

Havent had a chance to check out your replays yet, hopefully will do it soon. If you provide some more recent plays that'd be good.

In other news, http://scoceania.com/appointment-deth had an interview recently, check it out.

I don't know though. I get the orbital command which I think negates getting the rax so soon.

The other thing too, is that it's good for early pressure from say a 6 pool because if you wall off with supply depots you're kind of inviting a baneling if he early pooled but wasn't a 6.

I also don't know how effective 3-4 hellions are when they're surrounded by lings with the extra off in your mineral line. I'm not even sure if you can get that many hellions out before a baneling bust or anything.

Like I said I tried to invent this to counter my friend who 6 or 8 pools and constantly goes into mass speedling and or baneling. Unfortunately in my aweful replays. (Really they're bad as hell probobly shouldn't even look at them anymore.) He didn't do this but I can't tell him to 6 pool and start to build expecting he will.

I'm not sure exactly how many minerals are lost compared to a normal build but I haven't really experienced too much of a negative draw because of going this build.

[retrovirus]

3-4 hellions are when they're surrounded by lings

thats one problem there. They shouldnt get surrounded.
Deth, can you please post a replay of what you just mentioned?

[DethFanatic]

thats one problem there. They shouldnt get surrounded.
Deth, can you please post a replay of what you just mentioned?

safest build along the lines that i mentioned is in the OP, me vs Seal. He tried several games in quick succession to baneling bust me but I am completely safe.

And kyle, don't be fooled by getting OC early, your economy is still shit compared to what it can be at that time.

[Sir Kyle Aziz]

safest build along the lines that i mentioned is in the OP, me vs Seal. He tried several games in quick succession to baneling bust me but I am completely safe.

And kyle, don't be fooled by getting OC early, your economy is still shit compared to what it can be at that time.

I have a question.

Why is it when I go mech I always get such a massive monster stockpile of minerals? I mean I could have an army of hellions with all the minerals I have excess of. I can unsterstand when I make pure marauder/marines that my gas gets high, I accept that. I just don't know how to spend the minerals I suppose. It makes me feel kinda like zerg in BW needing so much gas. (Though they don't need as much minerals.)

[DethFanatic]

If you get a huge stockpile of minerals, just throw down barracks and build marauders along with tank/hellion.

[Cure]

Kyle the pro way to look at things is.. you shouldnt have a stockpile of minerals

[Plasmic Fury]

ok, I need to watch Deth's replays.

[DethFanatic]

got some really good replays coming tomorrow, need to sleep for now though.. stay tuned, zerg and protoss players!

[Bl!ndf!re]

baneling nests arent hard to find because they can't really hide them before their creep gets going or they can proxy it with an overlord, just start throwing up 3 or 4 bunkers behind your wall off when you scout/scan it

im at work for 8 hours in the day...
For some reason tl is blocked under "games" but the pp forums are fine lol.

This is my only option for more than half my day...of course when im hope im actually playing the game.

i feel bad for you (srs), we should get more srs discussion going in here though, deth gave a good start

Edited by Bl!ndf!re, 12 August 2010 - 11:48 AM.

[Plasmic Fury]

Holy shit Deth..

when you made a barracks and a factory, then had the tech lab of the barracks but lifted it off and the factory and switched the factory to where the barracks was....






MIND BLOWN




Also, how the fuck were you microing all those lings while still making so much shit back at your base?

[retrovirus]

deth=smooth

its not about getting the scvs pumping with 4 raxes at your base...
its about getting the scv out, with enough money to start the next as your tech lab finishes on the rax as the second rax finishes at the same time as the depot so you can start the next one...its all about smoothness and finesse.
One can follow a build order on paper, but it really does take more than knowing 10/depot, 12/rax, 13/ref etc.

Watch how deth controls his units, look at his hotkeys in the replay. He isnt supply blocked, and you dont seem him struggling to spend his money. His plan flows smoothly so things click and no minerals are wasted.

The build order practice maps help a lot. Next thing you know, your mental checklist isnt so staggering since it flows naturally that given the completion of your factory, the tech lab is done so you can immediately switch the buildings and have money to start your next depot.

i feel bad for you (srs), we should get more srs discussion going in here though, deth gave a good start

feels bad man.

Ive been working on early pressure with t. Mostly 111. I let a quick banshee out but then focus on tanks with marines. As soon as they see the banshee the response (at least in gold) is to start making vikings. As soon as those vikings come out...theyre pretty useless against my tank and marine contain.

Ive been working really hard trying to refine my contains against zerg. I cant do shit against toss though, i find myself getting really sheltered in. Ive been working on micro so getting out 4 marines, 2 marauders, and 1 tank, as fast as i can trying to put on the pressure to prevent the fast expand has become easier. I will post replays when i get off work.

Edited by retrovirus, 12 August 2010 - 04:25 PM.

[j type]

I cant do shit against toss though, i find myself getting really sheltered in. Ive been working on micro so getting out 4 marines, 2 marauders, and 1 tank, as fast as i can trying to put on the pressure to prevent the fast expand has become easier. I will post replays when i get off work.

I've been playing quite passively in the early game vs toss recently. Relying on Siege Mode, Marines and a handful of Marauders to allow me to get my first expo up. I'll occasionally do some 'fake' pushes just to draw them out and see if I can pick anything off with some siege shots, but ultimately I'll pull back and remain defensive. After I'm up and running at my nat, the Toss is usually thinking about taking his 3rd, at which point I've recently started using Ghosts to nuke the main and 3rd at the same time (as players tend to rally to their nat on most maps).

Once I've done that, hopefully killing a bunch of probes in the process, I find that it's much easier to push out and establish a good position on the map, using ghosts to keep EMP'ing the inevitable HTs that come out to storm my (usually) MM-heavy armies.

I'm sure that's not the ideal way to deal with a decent macro-style toss, but it's been working for me against Plat P's for the moment.

Edited by j type, 12 August 2010 - 05:12 PM.

[DethFanatic]

OP updated

Everyone should check out the games vs pinder and stroggos at the very least.

And yes, I am in the process of switching to zerg.

Included ladder rank of opponents in OP... btw Pinder is probably the 3rd best player on the server in terms of skill, we always play the most epic matches :3

Edited by DethFanatic, 12 August 2010 - 08:32 PM.

[Solideath]

OP updated

Everyone should check out the games vs pinder and stroggos at the very least.

And yes, I am in the process of switching to zerg.

Included ladder rank of opponents in OP... btw Pinder is probably the 3rd best player on the server in terms of skill, we always play the most epic matches :3

i love reading up on your shit/replays. keep this up over here at pp.

cant wait till you go US server

[Bl!ndf!re]

snip

lets play :3

your in game?

mines Rainbow code 501



also deth i have a game that would make you laugh, whats the best way for me to upload it?

Edited by Bl!ndf!re, 13 August 2010 - 02:53 AM.

[DethFanatic]

^just use mediafire imo

Also, did 4 hours of casting, and uploaded it along with ~5 hours of other casts I have done over the past month on my live stream auto-pilot.. check it out! (If you get the right time, you will see a FPVOD of me in sc2 )

www.livestream.com/bananaman

Edited by DethFanatic, 14 August 2010 - 07:35 AM.

[j type]

Just watched a bit of the stream. Only managed to catch the last game between Moonglade and Filthy. Shame about the way that one ended, but I enjoyed it and the commentary.

Thanks for the heads up.