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Sc2 Beta

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#781
Sir Kyle Aziz

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You know how zerg beats protoss? 8 drones make a pool, get 6 lings, harrass with the 6 lings, then transition to mass speedlings and win game. Done.

It happens way way too much to my partner in 2's. Zerg goes fast lings and just pumps speedlings after getting a fast harrass in and kills him basically. He has to go 11 gate every time to stop it.



Is it just me or does cheese in this game seem very small on the risk side and high on the reward? Atleast I think so much more so then Sc1. I still have no idea how to counter protoss 2 chronoboost gateway cheese in my main as Terran. Reapers is easy for me 'cause I always go 11 rax or so and get fast gas and have a reaper out around 14 ish. So even if they 10 rax I'll know what's up. Zerg, can't really cheese me 'cause I'll have a wall and then he is like "lol wat now?" and then he has a reaper in his base and it usually kills 2 drones before dying sometimes 3 if I micro good enough 'cause they usually have a queen by then. He's far behind after the reaper gets 2-3 kills though because this whole time I've had about 5 more scv's my com sat should be finishing and mules will kick in and VRRRRRRM marines/marauders/stim/conc shot win.

#782
Sir Kyle Aziz

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Broodlords are OP as shiet, and Corruptors aren't as bad as everyone says they are.

#783
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QUOTE (Sir Kyle Aziz @ Apr 27 2010, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Broodlords are OP as shiet, and Corruptors aren't as bad as everyone says they are.


You have to consider that Broodlords cant attack air and Corrupters are very weak against light air units such as vikings and phoenixs, making Broodlords quite vulnerable to air attacks.

Edited by Drizzt_, 26 April 2010 - 11:39 PM.


#784
Sir Kyle Aziz

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QUOTE (Drizzt_ @ Apr 27 2010, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have to consider that Broodlords cant attack air and Corrupters are very weak against light air units such as vikings and phoenixs, making Broodlords quite vulnerable to air attacks.


ACTUALLY. Corruptors are almost 1-1 with Vikings and Phoenixes. Broodlords have a retarded amount of armour so phoenixes do shit damage to them combined with the 275 hp Broodlords have. It takes 4 storms. 4!!!!!! To kill one broodlord. Phoenix's do shit damage to corruptors because they also have 2 armour which isn't light which is all that phoenixes are good against. Really the only "counter" to broodlords is stalkers, which melt to hydra broodlord combo's. Protoss can't beat zerg if they get them.

As Terran, vikings might be worth it but they don't kill broodlords fast enough unless you have a poop load of them and by then chances are you've lost your ground army. Only really good viable counter is ravens with HSM but that really isn't too good either as it can be easily dodged and takes about 2-3 of them to kill a broodlord aswell.

So basically the only counter to broodlords is to beat them before they get them.

#785
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It all really depends on the player I suppose. Truth is that it would take a good while to come up with a fair amount of broodlords,
and even before that time at least a half-decent player would manage to compromise that zerg player unless of course it is not a 1v1 game or he is a noob. pp_smiley2.gif

#786
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QUOTE (Drizzt_ @ Apr 27 2010, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It all really depends on the player I suppose. Truth is that it would take a good while to come up with a fair amount of broodlords,
and even before that time at least a half-decent player would manage to compromise that zerg player unless of course it is not a 1v1 game or he is a noob. pp_smiley2.gif


Herp derp. Trash talk all you want but if a zerg out macros you, and has you on the back foot with Hydra/roach or whatever, which he can do. He can be free to expand, get the extra resources he needs to make broodlords and quickly. I mean shit. It's not that much of a stretch to get hive tech and corruptors which morph into broodlords in about 40 seconds or so. Greater spire and hive are really the only things keeping you behind and if you and the zerg are equal except he's been mining from gold or what not he's going to walk all over you.

So if you wanta talk shit, whats your plat rank?

#787
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Like I said, it depends on the player.

I don't see why you want to jump on the offensive so bad. Seems like you're accusing me of talking trash when I am pretty much listing down potential ways of killing broodlords. Efficient or inefficient. rofl

Edited by Drizzt_, 27 April 2010 - 12:06 AM.


#788
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I love broodlords. I've rarely lost after getting them unless I'm like way behind. I don't know if they changed it, but I remember reading about the ghost many months before the beta, and they had some single target ability that did like 40-50 damage and didn't cost very much energy IIRC. I dunno how it works or if they even have that ability anymore, but if you had like 6 ghosts you could easily take out brood lords. Plus you could easily kill whatever detector the zerg brought if they even brought any.

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#789
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Though Aziz's argument is respectable, It would be highly unlikely and unfair for Blizzard to create such a unit that has no counter and is apparently an automatic win once you get it, which in this case, is the Broodlord.
Therefore, there must be a way to counter Broodlords efficiently otherwise Blizzard has failed to develop a fully balanced RTS game.

Edited by Drizzt_, 27 April 2010 - 12:42 AM.


#790
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QUOTE (Drizzt_ @ Apr 27 2010, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Though Aziz's argument is respectable, It would be highly unlikely and unfair for Blizzard to create such a unit that has no counter and is apparently an automatic win once you get it, which in this case, is the Broodlord.
Therefore, there must be a way to counter Broodlords efficiently otherwise Blizzard has failed to develop a fully balanced RTS game.

Well this is still a beta, you should expect some imbalances, though I don't think the broodlord is soooo OP. I would advise against countering it with most ground units though.

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#791
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QUOTE (Sir Kyle Aziz @ Apr 27 2010, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know how zerg beats protoss? 8 drones make a pool, get 6 lings, harrass with the 6 lings, then transition to mass speedlings and win game. Done.

It happens way way too much to my partner in 2's. Zerg goes fast lings and just pumps speedlings after getting a fast harrass in and kills him basically. He has to go 11 gate every time to stop it.



Is it just me or does cheese in this game seem very small on the risk side and high on the reward? Atleast I think so much more so then Sc1. I still have no idea how to counter protoss 2 chronoboost gateway cheese in my main as Terran. Reapers is easy for me 'cause I always go 11 rax or so and get fast gas and have a reaper out around 14 ish. So even if they 10 rax I'll know what's up. Zerg, can't really cheese me 'cause I'll have a wall and then he is like "lol wat now?" and then he has a reaper in his base and it usually kills 2 drones before dying sometimes 3 if I micro good enough 'cause they usually have a queen by then. He's far behind after the reaper gets 2-3 kills though because this whole time I've had about 5 more scv's my com sat should be finishing and mules will kick in and VRRRRRRM marines/marauders/stim/conc shot win.


chrono boosted zealots on a 12 gate with probe pulling to defend > 8pool, and you are very much ahead for econ. Especially on 2v2 maps with crazy ass rush distances.

Also, if you get 11 rax your rax will only finish at 14, you shouldn't have a reaper OUT until 16-17, even with OC on 14.

To counter 2 gateway cheese, just get 4 rax without gas and pump marine/bunker.

should be something like 11/12 rax, 14/15 OC, 16 rax 16 depot 18 rax 21 rax

just make sure you get a CC, 2 gas, engi bay and turrets up as soon as you rape his cheesy ass proxy.

#792
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QUOTE (UDP @ Apr 27 2010, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well this is still a beta, you should expect some imbalances, though I don't think the broodlord is soooo OP. I would advise against countering it with most ground units though.


No, broodlord is fucking ridiculous. get 3-4 and you can beat a 80 food terran army with similar micro to guardians in sc1.

#793
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merged teh sc2 zerg thread into sc2 thread.

#794
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Brood Lords. The only thing you really can do against them are blink stalkers/void rays for toss and vikings/ghosts+snipe for terran. And those solutions aren't cost effective at all. Well, Broodlords are 300/200 (why does every race have 2 300/200 6 supply units?), but they are insanely good and are the reason why ultralisks are pointless.

Actualy, I never have really used ghosts and snipe vsZ, have to try that out icon_smile.gif

#795
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I wonder if it would be a good idea to make the bonus damage that some units do to buildings (like banelings and ultras) also affect massive units too. Would that make Ultras more effective?

I guess it still wouldn't change the fact that they get stuck on any tiny unit that gets in their way.

#796
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QUOTE (h3r1n6 @ Apr 27 2010, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brood Lords. The only thing you really can do against them are blink stalkers/void rays for toss and vikings/ghosts+snipe for terran. And those solutions aren't cost effective at all. Well, Broodlords are 300/200 (why does every race have 2 300/200 6 supply units?), but they are insanely good and are the reason why ultralisks are pointless.

Actualy, I never have really used ghosts and snipe vsZ, have to try that out icon_smile.gif


speaking of ghosts, am i the only one who uses the EMP? ive never come across a T player who uses ghosts. am i wrong to get ghosts in TvP just for EMP? it sure helps me with battles though. i was just wondering- do the EMP work on P buildings like SC1?

#797
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QUOTE (j type @ Apr 27 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder if it would be a good idea to make the bonus damage that some units do to buildings (like banelings and ultras) also affect massive units too. Would that make Ultras more effective?

it would also make them easier to kill with void rays, banelings, and pretty much every other anti-building unit.

#798
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QUOTE (Rakielis @ Apr 27 2010, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it would also make them easier to kill with void rays, banelings, and pretty much every other anti-building unit.


Hmm.. yea, banelings would be more effective against them, that's true, but Void Rays don't do bonus damage to buildings specifically, just armoured units.

#799
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ah, ya...your right.

and battle net is down again

Edited by Rakielis, 27 April 2010 - 10:24 AM.


#800
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QUOTE (h3r1n6 @ Apr 27 2010, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brood Lords. The only thing you really can do against them are blink stalkers/void rays for toss and vikings/ghosts+snipe for terran. And those solutions aren't cost effective at all. Well, Broodlords are 300/200 (why does every race have 2 300/200 6 supply units?), but they are insanely good and are the reason why ultralisks are pointless.

Actualy, I never have really used ghosts and snipe vsZ, have to try that out icon_smile.gif

They cost 250 gas actually, unless they changed it in the past few days. 100 for corruptor and 150 for the morph to broodlord. No matter what you get against broodlords they shouldn't be cheap, broodlords are very expensive. It makes sense that to stop a unit that costs so much you would need to spend a lot as well. Cloaked units would work pretty well for terran and protoss as well, zerg detector is just the upgraded overlord which is pretty easy to kill, it's not like they'll be able to run their broodlords away either, they're incredibly slow.

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