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Demon's Souls


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#1
retrovirus

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I was surprised there was no Demon's Souls thread yet.
I ran a search and found nothing, so if there actually is a thread already please delete this one.



I ordered mine last week online since no stores in my area had any left and it is coming in next week.
From what I can tell so far, it looks great, everyone raves about how the controls feel right, and I like the idea that the loadout really affects both the animations and the effectiveness of your character.

The difficulty of the game is a big stand out here as dying results in you losing all of your exp(souls) in between levelling, and this results in you having your life halved. You can attempt to reclaim your lost souls but dying in this attempt results in them being lost forever.
There are no checkpoints in the dungeons, dying at the final dungeon boss results in you having to start the dungeon over WITH full respawning enemies.



My reason for purchasing is essentially for the combat gameplay, i like the idea of shoulder button mapping, Left shoulders = left hand, including blocking if shield equipped or attacking if weapon equipped
right shoulders= right hand.



Its gotten very good reviews, and very bimodal user reviews.
People get spanked on this game pretty hard, so you will find many copies on craigslist or kijiji.
But its supposed to be really good as well.

Discuss!

Edited by retrovirus, 01 November 2009 - 11:54 AM.


#2
Destructor

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Yeah this game is friggin hard, but I'm enjoying it so far. Chuckles in 2-1 is annoying the hell out of me with those fireballs!

Edited by Destructor, 01 November 2009 - 04:13 PM.

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#3
retrovirus

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i got a package in the mail today!
Twas my brand new demon's souls copy along with preorder bonuses.


But i have my clinical neuroscience midterm tomorrow.
Updates on Thursday....fuck.

#4
Caelumeg

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QUOTE (retrovirus @ Nov 1 2009, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The difficulty of the game is a big stand out here as dying results in you losing all of your exp(souls) in between levelling, and this results in you having your life halved. You can attempt to reclaim your lost souls but dying in this attempt results in them being lost forever.
There are no checkpoints in the dungeons, dying at the final dungeon boss results in you having to start the dungeon over WITH full respawning enemies.


Sounds extremely arbitrary and frustrating to me tbh. And dated. I thought WoW made it clear that less penalties for death is more fun, isn't it?


#5
TheShadowNinja

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QUOTE (Caelumeg @ Nov 12 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sounds extremely arbitrary and frustrating to me tbh. And dated. I thought WoW made it clear that less penalties for death is more fun, isn't it?

No, systems like WoW made it clear that people want games to become easier and easier.
However, some of us want a challenge.

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#6
retrovirus

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UPDATE

I finished the game, and my god was it awesome.
It was not as hard as I thought it would be, mainly because everyone was calling the difficulty the biggest feature of the game.
Mind you...with enough skill the game will be incredibly fun. It is intense when you are running low on health and know that at any time you can die and have to start from the beginning.
The boss battles are pretty epic, not only because of the monster design but also because of that fear of having to restart the level.

It may sound dated, but it is a very important part of the game.
if there were no death penalties, then everyone will just finish the game eventually. If you have lots of checkpoints, then theres no problem with dying repeatedly.
Please note, that you do not lose all of your souls for good if you die.
If you die, you leave behind a bloodstain, then enter the level from the beginning with enemies completely respawning, and have to touch your bloodstain where you died to get those souls back. However if you die AGAIN before you touch it, you leave behind another blood stain. You can only have one bloodstain at a time, therefore you lose however many souls were in that first blood stain.

It adds a level of intensity that a lot of games havent given me in the past. Diablo 2 was awesome in that death lead to a loss of exp, so you had to be careful.

Theres a world tendency system too. Some games, when you die repeatedly, offer you an easy mode since you suck so bad (devil may cry series for example).
However, when you are in body form, and you die, the world shifts to a black tendency.
The blacker the world tendency gets, the MORE HP the enemies have, the MORE DAMAGE they do, the LESS HP you have, but the better the drops.
So if you start playing stupid, the game punishes you. Mind you, if you die even once, your soul form only has half the hp lol.

This game has consumed a large part of my life. You have to perfect your skill, strategy, and place careful emphasis on your stats and gear.

The PVP adds a huge bonus to the game. When you are in body form, a player in soul form has the ability to "invade" your game as a black phantom. His goal is to kill you, and your goal is to kill him.

If he kills you, he revives in body form, and if you die, you go to soul form (thus stealing your life).
If you kill him, your world shifts to the white tendency.

The game can be frustrating, but when you die, its your fault. So you learn to play smarter, and you get better at the game.
Its one of those things where, you as a player get better to beat the game, you dont just keep playing while sucking but end up beating it because theres no penalty to dying.

Im now in New Game +. Everything is harder lol.

LAST NOTE:
You can drop red eye stones. What these do is lay down a challenge in the form of a message on the floor. If someone chooses to accept, you go to their world and fight in a duel. The loser drops a level, and the winner gains the amount of souls equivalent to the amount of souls needed to gain that level. Its like gambling with game time almost since it can take hours to gain the amount of souls at the higher levels through normal means like farming.

EDIT: Your weapon choice plays a pivotal role in both pve and pvp. The strongest weapons may not be the best choice because of how they attack. They are sluggish, and you cant roll. But if you connect an attack it will do insane amounts of damage to the other person and stagger/knock them down.

My weapon of choice is the Halberd. It has good reach so sword users cant reach me., and you can do both slashing or peircing attacks.

Spears however gain the ability to attack while your shield is raised spartan style. Someone can deck themselves in armor, carry a large shield, and stay defending WHILE attacking. However this person cannot move quickly or dodge attacks. This means it may be hard to break through his defense to attack him directly, BUT It can be easier for me to dodge his attacks and get behind him leading to a high damaging back stab attack.

The upgrade system works like many crafting systems in other games. Example, my Halberd is now called, "Crushing Halberd +5". I followed the "Crushing" upgrade path which deviates from the standard upgrade route. Using stones found in the game (shards, large shards, chunks, and perfect stone like diablo) you can upgrade your weapon based on your likes/dislikes. The "Crushing" attribute requires "greystones" and as you upgrade using this stream, the weapon increases in damage scaling from your "Strength" attribute. Other stones can be used to increase based on dex, or strength and dex, or magic and faith, or a combination of all of the above. The system is relatively deep. You eventually gain the ability to forge the souls of felled bosses into your weapons.

Edited by retrovirus, 12 November 2009 - 04:14 PM.


#7
Caelumeg

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QUOTE (TheShadowNinja @ Nov 12 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, systems like WoW made it clear that people want games to become easier and easier.
However, some of us want a challenge.


You are mistaking punishment for difficulty. Losing hours' worth of hard work doesn't mean the game is harder, it just makes the game more frustrating. It's not fun.

A game can be difficult without having to feel like work. Dragon Age is an example.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I don't have any principle against penalties for death or anything. Apparently this game managed to do something very, very right, as I keep hearing.

I didn't play it for myself so I wouldn't know... I'm just taken aback that something that would normally be a particularly negative point in most games, is actually regarded as a feature in this one. Usually hard games end up sucking because they're just too frustrating to be playable.

Edited by Caelumeg, 12 November 2009 - 10:45 PM.



#8
TheShadowNinja

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QUOTE (Caelumeg @ Nov 12 2009, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are mistaking punishment for difficulty. Losing hours' worth of hard work doesn't mean the game is harder, it just makes the game more frustrating. It's not fun.

A game can be difficult without having to feel like work. Dragon Age is an example.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I don't have any principle against penalties for death or anything. Apparently this game managed to do something very, very right, as I keep hearing.

I didn't play it for myself so I wouldn't know... I'm just taken aback that something that would normally be a particularly negative point in most games, is actually regarded as a feature in this one. Usually hard games end up sucking because they're just too frustrating to be playable.

Well, to quote Gamestop's review;
QUOTE
What makes extreme difficulty and incessant trial and error such wonderful qualities in Demon's Souls, when they are so loathsome in other games? It starts with the deliberate and wonderful combat, which doesn't seem complex at first, but reveals its subtleties in time. Rarely will mindlessly hacking and slashing get you anywhere, unless death is your ultimate goal. You need to contemplate every move, swing only when you are sure you won't be countered, and switch weapons or use items only when you are sure your window of opportunity is wide enough. You'll encounter all sorts of awesome and unnatural beasts, from tumbling skeletal fiends to frightful three-faced larvae, and while they have a set number of attacks, they still behave unpredictably. You will undoubtedly take a lot of damage until you learn the subtleties of fighting each enemy, but combat feels just right. You move with the right amount of weight, combos take time to pull off, and animations are silky smooth. Everything moves and interacts in the way you'd expect. If your sword hits the wall instead of the enemy, it will glance off. If a demon knight rears back just before you do the same, his sword will make contact at the part of your body that you left unprotected. These touches may seem small and unimportant, but when every second counts, and when life and death are separated by a millimeter or two, you rely on such consistency.


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#9
retrovirus

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i dont think the fact that you could lose a lot of souls makes the game difficult.
Its developing your skills and perfect timing to get through the entire level without dying that makes it difficult.
The losing of souls is just punishment lol.

So if you die its because on of those 3 aspects suffered. Dying results in you starting over meaning you have to refine your play. But if you die twice in a row, the game will bitchslap you for not learning lol. I mastered my load out of shield and halberd. I had to perfect the switching between using one hand while defending and finding openings where I can capitalize by using both hands on the halberd allowing me to jab, riposte, and string combos at the expense of defense.


To anyone curious about the length of a level and the subsequent boss fight, this walkthrough shows one dungeon of one area.
There are 5 areas in the game, each with subdivisions.

The combined length of the videos is around 14 minutes.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Boss Fight

This is not me playing, I just thought this would be a good example of how the combat works with my favourite enemies.
Remember that if you die at the boss, you start from the beginning of the first video. Also note that this player is using heavier armor than other starting classes may use. On my playthrough, the tongue attacks and sword attacks all killed me in one hit.

Edited by retrovirus, 13 November 2009 - 10:11 PM.


#10
Andrack

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I saw the review for this on gametrailers. It looks like a cool game! I might rent it when I have the time.

#11
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Demon's Souls is the best game I have played all year by far. My GOTY for sure unless something else changes my mind, which I do not see happening.

#12
MasterEvz

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Got this game with my ps3 slim yesterday, and fuck its pretty frustrating. What mind boggled me at the start was what the hell do i do with my souls and the death in the tutorial, the game should of done better to teach the concept of souls at the beginning. Still a great game though.



#13
retrovirus

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also note that once you beat the game the first time, the second time through with your newgame+ will be about 1.5x as hard. Enemies have more health and do more damage.
Ive beat the game twice with a melee fighter, and once with my spellcaster, i am currently on my newgame+ with the spellcaster.
The game really doesnt do a good job at teaching you what to do with souls lol.
I just coincidentally talked to the maiden twice and the level up screen came up.

The game is still really fun. Ive put almost a hundred hours into it. Most of my time is spent in pvp though.

Edited by retrovirus, 23 December 2009 - 11:18 AM.


#14
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A little late but i got this game yesterday at my local gamestop's powersale or whatever.

The clerk told me how much he hated the game and how much it sucked AFTER i purchased it of course.

He told me he couldn't get past the first place.. the only thing i said is i bought it after many good reviews.

So i went home, played the game and i love it. it reminds me of old school nes games that were actually challenging. The online tips system is great. Knowing what comes next helps a lot. It's not hard when you know what to do and how to do it affectivly.

I asked the gamestop employee what he liked to play and it figured. WoW and some online game called evony.

gah.


Whose the noob?¿?

#15
liquidicevi

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I got the game.... two weeks ago? Or so. Anywho finished it a few days ago. Have to say it was not as hard as everyone made it out to be. It was a challenge that keeps you on your toes, because if you let your guard down your going to die. BUT...

The game wasn't that hard for me because I got one single weapon... Meat Clever. Though you still need to be on your toes with that weapon, it makes things alot easier. To be honest I wish I didn't get it. Though saying that it wasn't the god of god weapons in every area. Especially bosses that were fast attackers.
I also never lost a HUGE amount of souls either because once you know how to farm them that 20k amount of souls doesn't seem like that much.


But NG+ i've been finding frustratingly annoying sometimes. Enemys that did nothing against you are now evil again. Also I decided to give the Meat Clever up because of how boring a weapon it is.


Buuutt overall the games great if you have the time and patience to put into it. Once thing that disappointed me was how easier it is to glitch alot of the bosses. Or how easy they are once you know how to get past them. Also thief's ring seems like the most cheap but most necessary thing in the game. You can just stand a few meters away from an enemy while you unleash poison cloud.




QUOTE (Solideath @ Jul 21 2010, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A little late but i got this game yesterday at my local gamestop's powersale or whatever.

The clerk told me how much he hated the game and how much it sucked AFTER i purchased it of course.

He told me he couldn't get past the first place.. the only thing i said is i bought it after many good reviews.

So i went home, played the game and i love it. it reminds me of old school nes games that were actually challenging. The online tips system is great. Knowing what comes next helps a lot. It's not hard when you know what to do and how to do it affectivly.

I asked the gamestop employee what he liked to play and it figured. WoW and some online game called evony.

gah.


Also thats just... What a noob. lol

Edited by liquidicevi, 20 July 2010 - 08:15 PM.

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#16
retrovirus

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I havent played this in a while but when i was playing it, i was very into it. I mostly just built up my dudes for pvp. I had a really fast polearm user and a wizard. It was so much fun, especially busting into games with 3 guys. Hunting someone down is probably one of the most fun experiences ive had in a long time.

#17
Andrack

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So I ended up getting the game for Christmas. It was the only game I got because it looked interesting and every other game that came out last year sucked dick so I took a risk and HO LEE BALLS. I love this game to death. I love the art, the music, the gameplay, the story (yes, there is one), the difficulty, it's "Fuck you weakling" attitude, the limited multiplayer, everything. There is no doubt that Demon's Souls 2 will be a day 1 purchase for me. Hopefully I can get the platinum trophy before then.

And for the Haters: If you didn't even make it past the Tower Knight (2nd boss, first world), then you suck at the game. QQ noobs.

#18
Neep™

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QUOTE (Solideath @ Jul 20 2010, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He told me he couldn't get past the first place.


God damn casuals. We need more games like this, I love it.

#19
Solideath

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QUOTE (Neep™ @ Jul 21 2010, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
God damn casuals. We need more games like this, I love it.

yeah we do.

i plan on playing it a lot more this week. atleast till starcraft 2 comes out. lol
Whose the noob?¿?

#20
retrovirus

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kris blade + 5
insanity catalyst
ring of magical sharpness
monks head wrappings (ugly as shit and makes it difficult to see, but works well)

fucking beam cannon.

A lot of people try to hide around corners, but a good firestorm knocks em down and soul beam cleans up the rest.




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