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please flame my friend for being so dumb

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33 replies to this topic

Poll: is my friend dumb as shit (13 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. lol whats he thinking (9 votes [69.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  2. no (4 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

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#1
xXZero_HourXx

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my friend htinks that his 400mhz computer can run a game taht requires 1.8ghz if he buys all these shitty comps and links them with ethernet roflololol i tell him hes stupid as hell and he just says fuck u like 100x like a noob (he thinks hes pro or something) he also thinks i know nothing about computers because i know that linking computers wiht ethernet isent gonna make a massive super computer lol

#2
Weegee_101

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For starters, learn to use punctuation. I think my eyes are bleeding after reading that. I'm guessing you're about as much of a n00b as your friend is.

You can link computers together to increase their processing power, but it won't work for games. What he's probably talking about is a Cluster. However, without code written specifically for it, its useless. Linking a couple 400mhz comptuers together wouldn't make a supercomputer, but it will make doing mathmatical processing much faster; so you're both pretty much n00bs, just in different areas.

#3
xXZero_HourXx

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dude i know what a cluster is, and yes i know u can link computers together to do certain parts of an operation. but for a game that demands alot of video processing u need dirrect connections not ethernet and thats what i was talking about obviously. There are reasons why gphx cards have huge memory bandwidths like 40gb/s, obviosly way more bandwidth than ethernet can ever provide

#4
evol262

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BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.

Video cards do not utilize 40GB/s of bandwidth, realistically. Peak texture fill rate on the 7800GTX is ~38 GB/s. If you're not doing any operations -at all-. As soon as you start doing shader operations, antialiasing, any filtering at all (that includes bilinear), etc, the bandwidth drops by orders of magnitude.

Regardless, that's on-card speed, not bus speed. The amount of bandwidth utilized in most operations is somewhere near 1.5-2GB/s over the PCIe/AGP bus (AGP 4x was 2.1GB/s, btw). With 10GigEthernet or even a GigE card, you could approach the necessary speeds.

You CAN do high-performance video with a cluster. Never heard of SGI? Ever heard of their Infinite Reality Monster? The problem is that the cards will not have anywhere near the required speed. Any graphics card with low enough voltage requirements to run in a 400 Mhz PC will be AGP 1x/2x, and probably near Voodoo3 levels, maybe less. It has -zero- shader pipes. It has crappy on-card memory bandwidth. It uses PCI66 SDRAM, maybe worse. It has an ATA33/66 hard drive. Those are the limiting factors.

High-performance video clustering is possible for raytracing operations, and a lot of other things. Video cards are pretty much high-speed FPUs (Floating Point Execution Units), which are also found on processors (though with a lower transistor count, and not as fast).

Not least, clustering generally requires a UNIX/Linux setup (clustering services for 2k3/2k excepted, as the licenses are prohibitively expensive, and it's nowhere near trivial to do, plus the hardware generally has to be identical), which won't run today's Windows games all that well (unless you're a fairly competent Linux geek, which you're clearly not).

You don't -need- code specifically written for a cluster. Beowulfs will do.

I agree with Weegee completely. You're both noobs, but in different areas. Perhaps even in the same. I imagine the response you expected was "OMFG ROFLOLOLOL n00b !!11!1!eleventyone!" What he proposed is not as ludicrous as it sounds.

#5
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Evol, once again slammed!

I bet thats what was going through his mind, ROFL theyre gonna think hes a toal noobx100 hahahah noob toal noob tell him to die.

#6
Weegee_101

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QUOTE (evol262)
You don't -need- code specifically written for a cluster. Beowulfs will do.


Good point. Code written specifically generally performs better however.

The cards typically used for video clustering arn't built for gaming, much like the FireGL, and thus just won't perform nearly as well as a 7800GTX would.

There was a good article by I believe Tom's Hardware a long time ago about the performance of the FireGL with gaming. They found that while the FireGL is an amazing video card, for 3d gaming it performed very poorly... yet performed better than a Radeon 9800XT for 3d modeling and movie type stuff.

I couldn't have said it better myself evol.

#7
xXZero_HourXx

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how could ethernet provide enough bandwidth for mulitple GPUs to communicate??? The SLI systems even have a special bridge (im sure u know) because the pci X slot isent enough. Also since when has ethernet been able to transfer 2-5 gb/sec? I no im not the most knowlegeable on clustering but seriously, if u have 3000 voodoo 3s it wont make a game like farcry look better because it dosent support AA,AF (as far as i know) and dosent have the necessary shader units it deffinitely will although increase math performance but video cards dont only crunch numbers, they have processes built into them which is what a pipeline is i think. Im pretty sure hte BFG 7800GTX has memory clocked high enough to provide 41gb of bandwidth. My original post was not saying that clustering is impossible, but to laff at how he thinks shitxshit=good gaming machine. I admit i dont know what 10gigethernet is but if it means GB (not Gb) i dont know of a hardrive that writes that fast for it to be a fully used file transfer mechanism (not memory to memory). Trust me all my knows is that hes seen a machine that consisted of multiple computers (which was most likely for enhanced server performance.) But evol, i dont find anything wrong with thinking linking a bunch of totally outdated computers together is ludicris although clusters do exist.

#8
xXZero_HourXx

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QUOTE (TEB)
Evol, once again slammed!

I bet thats what was going through his mind, ROFL theyre gonna think hes a toal noobx100 hahahah noob toal noob tell him to die.


TEB, why dont u say something relevent to the subject and not fanboy a user? even thought what he said was true and interesting

#9
1337cshacker

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QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
dude i know what a cluster is, and yes i know u can link computers together to do certain parts of an operation. but for a game that demands alot of video processing u need dirrect connections not ethernet and thats what i was talking about obviously. There are reasons why gphx cards have huge memory bandwidths like 40gb/s, obviosly way more bandwidth than ethernet can ever provide

this is best to do with a parrell or serial cabel. since serial is the fastest connection speed. just a little fyi. oh ya, your freinds a n00bie.
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#10
Novacaine

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QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
how could ethernet provide enough bandwidth for mulitple GPUs to communicate??? The SLI systems even have a special bridge (im sure u know) because the pci X slot isent enough. Also since when has ethernet been able to transfer 2-5 gb/sec? I no im not the most knowlegeable on clustering but seriously, if u have 3000 voodoo 3s it wont make a game like farcry look better because it dosent support AA,AF (as far as i know) and dosent have the necessary shader units it deffinitely will although increase math performance but video cards dont only crunch numbers, they have processes built into them which is what a pipeline is i think. Im pretty sure hte BFG 7800GTX has memory clocked high enough to provide 41gb of bandwidth. My original post was not saying that clustering is impossible, but to laff at how he thinks shitxshit=good gaming machine. I admit i dont know what 10gigethernet is but if it means GB (not Gb) i dont know of a hardrive that writes that fast for it to be a fully used file transfer mechanism (not memory to memory). Trust me all my knows is that hes seen a machine that consisted of multiple computers (which was most likely for enhanced server performance.) But evol, i dont find anything wrong with thinking linking a bunch of totally outdated computers together is ludicris although clusters do exist.


/me wishes to note PCI-X and PCIe are quite different things.

#11
TEB

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QUOTE
TEB, why dont u say something relevent to the subject and not fanboy a user? even thought what he said was true and interesting


Well what else is there to say, evol and weegee pretty much covered it. I mean I could clarify something I didnt like and sound like a know it all.

#12
dloko

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xXZero_HourXx, evol262 already commented on the lackluster performance issues with outdated hardware on modern Windows games.

In the end though, I think you should be encouraging your friend to have a go at it instead of getting a forum to flame his idea. He could even write a report on how it went, I'd like to read something like that.
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#13
Weegee_101

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QUOTE (dloko)
In the end though, I think you should be encouraging your friend to have a go at it instead of getting a forum to flame his idea. He could even write a report on how it went, I'd like to read something like that.


Ditto. It'd be interesting to see the results. There is never a stupid idea; especially when dealing with something as experimental as clustering.

QUOTE (TEB)
Well what else is there to say, evol and weegee pretty much covered it. I mean I could clarify something I didnt like and sound like a know it all.


What did we screw up?

#14
TEB

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no you hit it spot on, but I could try to cover for my lack of knowledge in this subject by making something up and look stupid. Or not say anything and look smart.

#15
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Dude, your Yoda avatar totally grants +20IQ
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#16
Starblaiz

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Personally, I think you are all missing the really fucking obvious here. While it maybe "possible" to link up several PC's to gain an "uber pc" - wtf would be the point?! The processor he's aiming for (1.8ghz) is worth about 30, whereas a full cluster, plus software to run it, would be edging on to like 200-300 ish!! since when does that amount of money and effot to end up with less make any kinda sense?!!?

As such, I vote "n00b" because you are all friken n00bs!!

.... Im sorry, i didn't mean to yell at you all like that icon_sad.gif I love you all really wink.gif

#17
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QUOTE (1337cshacker)
this is best to do with a parrell or serial cabel. since serial is the fastest connection speed. just a little fyi. oh ya, your freinds a n00bie.

dude, wtf makes you think serial is faster than parallel? seriously?
parallel is inherantly faster. it's like running several serial links (oddly enough) in parallel. if you mean USB is faster than the parallel port on the back of your pc, then yeah, you're right, but for the wrong reasons.

#18
evol262

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QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
how could ethernet provide enough bandwidth for mulitple GPUs to communicate??? The SLI systems even have a special bridge (im sure u know) because the pci X slot isent enough. Also since when has ethernet been able to transfer 2-5 gb/sec?


There's 10Gig ethernet. It's effectively 3.3 GB/s, but most graphics cards, as I stated, use ~2GB/s of bandwidth. You can also link multiple ethernet cards through multicast. Even an 8 port 10/100 card (it'd be 64 bit PCI) could get close enough with multicasting. So could a few Gig-E cards. The SLI bridge is nowhere near as fast as 10G/s. They're treated as one logical card, but it splits the 16x PCIe lane into 2 8x lanes. The SLI bridge, essentially, just allows the cards to be aware of each other, and set the mode (quadrant/line scan/scissors/whatever). Not much actual data is passed across the SLI bridge.

QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
I no im not the most knowlegeable on clustering but seriously, if u have 3000 voodoo 3s it wont make a game like farcry look better because it dosent support AA,AF (as far as i know) and dosent have the necessary shader units it deffinitely will although increase math performance but video cards dont only crunch numbers, they have processes built into them which is what a pipeline is i think.


Voodoo3s do support AA/AF, just lower modes. Yes, like I said, they don't have shader units. Video cards DO only crunch numbers. The GPU is a fast FPU, and it's entirely what it does. The GPU has a certain number of pipelines (Voodoo3s have 2 pipelines), but it's certainly possible. Generally, to cluster for 3D rendering, you need a workstation class card, though (Quadro/FireGL/Maxtrox card), not just Voodoos. They'd raytrace very well for CGI, but they wouldn't significantly improve performance for 3d accelerated games. Most games are singlethreaded (or -O3 at max), but with the increasing amount of dual core CPUs, you might see games that are properly multithreaded, which could efficiently be clustered with workstation class cards.

QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
Im pretty sure hte BFG 7800GTX has memory clocked high enough to provide 41gb of bandwidth. My original post was not saying that clustering is impossible, but to laff at how he thinks shitxshit=good gaming machine. I admit i dont know what 10gigethernet is but if it means GB (not Gb) i dont know of a hardrive that writes that fast for it to be a fully used file transfer mechanism (not memory to memory).


Yes, the 7800GTX has memory clocked high enough to provide 38GB/s of bandwidth. That is NEVER EVER hit. Even if you were just trying draw a whole bunch of one color pixels, with no shader operations, the GPU can't push data fast enough to hit 25GB/s at the moment. Regardless, as I said earlier, that's all on-card transfer speeds. The data speeds going over the bus to the graphics card are still only ~2GB/s. Consider that an Athlon64 with dual channel DDR400 CAPS at 6.4GB/s total throughput. It can't get anywhere near the requisite speeds for 40GB/s transfer rates.

No, hard drives do not write at 3.3GB/s. They don't need to. The data is passed directly over the bus to the video card. It's not going to the harddrive at all. In any case, large NAS units or a SAN cluster (which this could certainly be) can easily hit those speeds. Our Oracle cluster at work routinely hits 15GB/s from 20 15k SCSI drives. When you cluster, you're writing bits and pieces to a whole assload of drives, not just one. NAS is like a massive RAID array, put simply, and SAN can be imagined the same way.

QUOTE (xXZero_HourXx)
Trust me all my knows is that hes seen a machine that consisted of multiple computers (which was most likely for enhanced server performance.) But evol, i dont find anything wrong with thinking linking a bunch of totally outdated computers together is ludicris although clusters do exist.


You can find examples of high-performance video clustering from 2002 here. It's possible, and it's done rather often. The games on the market at the moment do not support the required RPC calls (exception being games with SLI support based off of 3dFX's spec, like the nVidia cards), but maybe someday.

When I first heard about Beowulf clustering, I had the same ideas. It's not feasable now, but it's definitely possible if you're running the right applications.

#19
xXZero_HourXx

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thank u very much i knew clustering for graphics performacen existed but i wasent knowlegeable on it. Im going to look into this it is pretty interesting. Im not trying to disprove anything but why would PCIe (there u go who ever commented ont he difference between PCIe and PCI X lol) if they didnt need the extra bandwidth. Clustering with multiple Ethernet connections must be a pain in the ass that i dont think ill ever have time to work with (needless to say money) to try out lol.

Just for the record, who would need this much graphics power (clustering top line comps)

#20
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QUOTE (/R52)
Personally, I think you are all missing the really fucking obvious here. While it maybe "possible" to link up several PC's to gain an "uber pc" - wtf would be the point?! The processor he's aiming for (1.8ghz) is worth about 30, whereas a full cluster, plus software to run it, would be edging on to like 200-300 ish!! since when does that amount of money and effot to end up with less make any kinda sense?!!?

As such, I vote "n00b" because you are all friken n00bs!!

.... Im sorry, i didn't mean to yell at you all like that icon_sad.gif I love you all really wink.gif


A 30 1.8 Ghz processor? :roll:


QUOTE (Weiman @ Apr 5 2009, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is exactly what has been going on through the entire thread, and it's not the first time either.
You come to us for advice..you just spell out what you want to get, and then ask us if it is okay, and we have to explain why it isn't. That's the world upside down.. If you would just say 'hey guys, I have an X amount of money, what should I buy?' Then this would be over in 2-3 posts, not 2-3 pages.
QUOTE (Kazzerax @ May 21 2009, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Every time someone goes against Weiman's sig I feel like they should be bludgeoned for a few minutes in the head to feel the headache I feel when I realize someone really IS that dense.




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