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Worth Comming Back?


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#41
Mighty_Chives

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QUOTE (Jaylew @ Jul 21 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's because, when first release, half the fights were broken. Then they fixed them quickly after (when it was still server-crash week) and then it was fine, and now they've started nerfbatting every fight and hard mode.

Pugs were doing Mimiron hard mode (well, 10-man anyways) on Mal'Ganisl server after they nerfed that to hell, and 3 keepers was never particularly hard, the trash pulls to Freya were harder then that entire fight.

I mean, they even started nerfing trash pulls, which would be funny if it wasn't true. People who call Ulduar the hardest fights yet must have forgotten what 40-man raids pre-BC were like.


Pretty sure Yogg 0 keepers hasn't been nerfed since release.

so ok it's your opinion vs the top guilds in the world's opinions

#42
Sir Kyle Aziz

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I refute these statements. Blood Legion has all 10 man hardmode content cleared. :\ I'm fairly sure they have all 25 man hardmode content cleared too.

That and so many people I know on my realm have quit/gone inactive/are casual now that they don't even really raid or care.

There's a reason Thaddeus was known as a guild killer, there's a reason so few guilds were able to do anything in Vanilla Nax. Because that shit was fucking hard. They had no hard mode, they were the hardmode.

The game is super casual oriented, the fact that they have to have hard modes says everything. From what hard modes I'd done before I quit. I fucking laughed. :\ It was a god damn joke.

#43
Mighty_Chives

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There are 5 guilds in the world that have cleared all content, and here's proof; http://www.wowprogress.com/

Stars, the guild to clear it first, allegedly took 2000 wipes to get it down. I'd assume some of those 2000 came from some wipes when learning the boss initially. But still. You can check this tru fax on an armory profile; http://tw.wowarmory....i...us&gn=Stars

And nobody is calling 10 man hardmodes hard.

#44
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I loved SSC/TK trash back when it was "hard". AoE plowing through trash is so boring.

#45
Sir Kyle Aziz

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QUOTE (Mighty_Chives @ Jul 21 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are 5 guilds in the world that have cleared all content, and here's proof; http://www.wowprogress.com/

Stars, the guild to clear it first, allegedly took 2000 wipes to get it down. I'd assume some of those 2000 came from some wipes when learning the boss initially. But still. You can check this tru fax on an armory profile; http://tw.wowarmory....i...us&gn=Stars

And nobody is calling 10 man hardmodes hard.


Oh would you look at that, people who were able to beat alot of shit before the number 5th guild Irae AoD haven't done it, which means they're not doing it at all. Which means people quit! Lol. Probobly because they figured it was a waste of time.

You can't judge how hard an encounter is by how many times someone wipes. There's 100's of reasons why someone wipes on a boss, and not one of those reasons is because the fight is too hard. I'm not even going to list all of them to you, as I think you should know that by know.

In any case, maybe if people played like they used to. (Lets count how many of Illidans guilds lost memebers who don't raid. Warpath, Blood Legion, Team Ice, Saga.. I can go on.) If people who had been there from the start we'd see this shit gonzo in no time at all. As if to prove my point, all my friends and myself included stopped with raiding and WoW a few weeks to a month and a bit after Ulduar's release. I also see people who were there for every encounter in BC and Vanilla wow also gone. (Ramalama for example) He just runs around shat in his T3 with Atiesh now, I saw him go to do things occasionally but not every night.

I'm telling you that this "hard mode" stuff isn't all it's cracked up to be. Give me and my buddies the desire and the gear/people to do it, and we'll get it down fast. I couldn't care to be pissed about it though so good luck.

#46
Mighty_Chives

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ur full of urself m8

#47
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As you can see facts show that only 5 guilds in the world have thus far truly cleared ulduar, after all the time it's been released, it offers more then enough challenge.

Disregard anything the WoW-haters are screaming about it being casual, the facts clearly show that ulduar content is among if not THE hardest content in the game.


Alot of people can kill the bosses in Ulduar, this allows more people then ever before to enjoy raiding. The hard modes allow blizzard to give the challenge to the hardcore guilds, but also let guilds that don't have all that time and skill to enjoy the progression and lore, everyone wins.


Sir kyle is clearly just being a child atm and not willing to admit defeat. After being proven wrong he still claims it's to casual for his taste. He also says he left soon after ulduar was released, did he even kill normal bosses? He's not even done any hard-mode bosses yet, so don't take his word for anything.

The game is better then ever before and allows both the hardcore and casual players to enjoy the same game at the same time.


QUOTE
In any case, maybe if people played like they used to. (Lets count how many of Illidans guilds lost memebers who don't raid. Warpath, Blood Legion, Team Ice, Saga.. I can go on.) If people who had been there from the start we'd see this shit gonzo in no time at all. As if to prove my point, all my friends and myself included stopped with raiding and WoW a few weeks to a month and a bit after Ulduar's release. I also see people who were there for every encounter in BC and Vanilla wow also gone. (Ramalama for example) He just runs around shat in his T3 with Atiesh now, I saw him go to do things occasionally but not every night.


How silly do you have to be to really think that your little world sets the tone for 11 million players? This boss has been cleared by 5 guilds. Even a guild that was formed from 2 of the best guilds in the world (sure those players sucked right?) did not get it down till just this week.

This encounter is one of the hardest and most difficult fights ever, putting anything vanilla/TBC ever produced to shame. I mean god, Lady Vasjh died faster and that thing was bugged beyond reason. And here is a strong boss, no bugs, it's all you and your skill, and blizz allready said they ain't nerfing it. Just admit that you really didn't know what you were talkin about, because it's clear you don't.

#48
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Sweet, one instance in hard mode is enough to bring me back.
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#49
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Yeah I was one of the people who complained about how casual raiding was after the WotLK but Ulduar shut me up icon_biggrin.gif and I'm glad, unfortunately for me I can no longer raid for lack of time, but I'm glad there's a distinction between hardcore raiders and casual people again icon_razz.gif even if I'm forced to be the latter.


#50
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QUOTE (zalzaron @ Jul 22 2009, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As you can see facts show that only 5 guilds in the world have thus far truly cleared ulduar, after all the time it's been released, it offers more then enough challenge.

Disregard anything the WoW-haters are screaming about it being casual, the facts clearly show that ulduar content is among if not THE hardest content in the game.


Alot of people can kill the bosses in Ulduar, this allows more people then ever before to enjoy raiding. The hard modes allow blizzard to give the challenge to the hardcore guilds, but also let guilds that don't have all that time and skill to enjoy the progression and lore, everyone wins.


Sir kyle is clearly just being a child atm and not willing to admit defeat. After being proven wrong he still claims it's to casual for his taste. He also says he left soon after ulduar was released, did he even kill normal bosses? He's not even done any hard-mode bosses yet, so don't take his word for anything.

The game is better then ever before and allows both the hardcore and casual players to enjoy the same game at the same time.




How silly do you have to be to really think that your little world sets the tone for 11 million players? This boss has been cleared by 5 guilds. Even a guild that was formed from 2 of the best guilds in the world (sure those players sucked right?) did not get it down till just this week.

This encounter is one of the hardest and most difficult fights ever, putting anything vanilla/TBC ever produced to shame. I mean god, Lady Vasjh died faster and that thing was bugged beyond reason. And here is a strong boss, no bugs, it's all you and your skill, and blizz allready said they ain't nerfing it. Just admit that you really didn't know what you were talkin about, because it's clear you don't.

lol

When I raided in burning crusade I did not play to be handicapped, I did the encounters the way they were designed to in the first place. I can't believe people are buying into the hard mode system as a replacement for hardcore raiding, you just shot your self in the foot for anything that can resemble any of the encounters in burning crusade and vanilla.

Handicaps are not a fun alternative to well designed challenging raid encounters. I would rather have the satisfaction of beating something the first time that would kick my ass rather then it being a pushover and then next week it handicaps you and it just seems bland.

Artificial difficulty

Its like recoil/bunny hopping in counter strike, I still play the game for fun but theres reasons I don't try to be competitive about it. Its fake skill and not something I have fun with. I would rather have fun being competitive in another game.

World of warcraft will never see any other epic raid enounters like the ones in vanilla/burning crusade. The complexity of kael'thas, the coordination of vashj, The difficulty of sunwell, or the overall fun of the raids.

#51
TheShadowNinja

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QUOTE (pearlsea @ Jul 22 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
World of warcraft will never see any other epic raid enounters like the ones in vanilla/burning crusade. The complexity of kael'thas, the coordination of vashj, The difficulty of sunwell, or the overall fun of the raids.

What a stupid thing to say...

Let's ignore the fact that everyone (including people in this thread) said THOSE choice encounters were too easy because they were 25-man instead of 40-man.

Edited by TheShadowNinja, 22 July 2009 - 06:05 PM.


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#52
otaku_4_life

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QUOTE (TheShadowNinja @ Jul 22 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a stupid thing to say...

Let's ignore the fact that everyone (including people in this thread) said THOSE choice encounters were too easy because they were 25-man instead of 40-man.

Actually, they were widely praised for being some of the most well-constructed encounters ever.

AKA:
QUOTE (Karko @ Aug 21 2011, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that 12 year old canadian kid who used to play BF2 before going to WoW and becoming addicted

#53
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QUOTE (otaku_4_life @ Jul 22 2009, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, they were widely praised for being some of the most well-constructed encounters ever.

Media? Maybe.
Websites? Maybe.

Players? All I heard was crying.

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#54
otaku_4_life

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QUOTE (TheShadowNinja @ Jul 22 2009, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Players? All I heard was crying.

Then you didn't listen hard enough.

AKA:
QUOTE (Karko @ Aug 21 2011, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that 12 year old canadian kid who used to play BF2 before going to WoW and becoming addicted

#55
- i luv noobs -

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nvm

Edited by - i luv noobs -, 22 July 2009 - 09:57 PM.

QUOTE (Xayun @ Sep 10 2009, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No. I refuse to believe that we are not being trolled. No-one could be this instantly unlikeable

QUOTE (- i luv noobs - @ Sep 10 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No-one you say? :neutral: Consider that comment as a welcome back for me, yall can thank Xayun.


#56
Tree_

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40 AQ > Ulduar. Pz nukkas.

#57
zalzaron

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QUOTE (pearlsea @ Jul 22 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol

When I raided in burning crusade I did not play to be handicapped, I did the encounters the way they were designed to in the first place. I can't believe people are buying into the hard mode system as a replacement for hardcore raiding, you just shot your self in the foot for anything that can resemble any of the encounters in burning crusade and vanilla.

Handicaps are not a fun alternative to well designed challenging raid encounters. I would rather have the satisfaction of beating something the first time that would kick my ass rather then it being a pushover and then next week it handicaps you and it just seems bland.

Artificial difficulty

Its like recoil/bunny hopping in counter strike, I still play the game for fun but theres reasons I don't try to be competitive about it. Its fake skill and not something I have fun with. I would rather have fun being competitive in another game.

World of warcraft will never see any other epic raid enounters like the ones in vanilla/burning crusade. The complexity of kael'thas, the coordination of vashj, The difficulty of sunwell, or the overall fun of the raids.


Again, clear proof these people are just flaming. Hard modes hardly have anything to do with handicapping yourself. Rather they involve new effects, mobs, situations etc.

Play the game before you bash on it for gods sake it's not too much to ask. Just don't comment on the difficulty of ulduar if you have never played through ulduar.

#58
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QUOTE (zalzaron @ Jul 23 2009, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, clear proof these people are just flaming. Hard modes hardly have anything to do with handicapping yourself. Rather they involve new effects, mobs, situations etc.

No, it is handicapping yourself. It's the exact definition. That's why they're trying a new style of raid organization with the Argent Coliseum.

AKA:
QUOTE (Karko @ Aug 21 2011, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that 12 year old canadian kid who used to play BF2 before going to WoW and becoming addicted

#59
Sir Kyle Aziz

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QUOTE (otaku_4_life @ Jul 23 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, it is handicapping yourself. It's the exact definition. That's why they're trying a new style of raid organization with the Argent Coliseum.


Lol, it's adding arbitrary rules to a fight and encounter. That's handicapping yourself. That's like going into Gruul without a hatefull strike tank, it's like doing Moroes without any CC. Or doing Maiden without cleanse ect.

You get the point. It's pointless needless additions to make an easy fight hard. Hell I can turn all of wow's encounters into my own hard modes. It doesn't change the fact that it was still made around the casual players.


Edit; So you don't care about Illidan? One of the original, and one of the BEST US servers? That has had 6-7 of the US's best guilds in it? No one can Deny that Saga, Warpath, Blood Legion, Team Ice, Die... The list goes on. Were some of the best guilds out there. And where are they? Hell they're not even doing the content. They quit notice how again as I said before Blood Legion was 11th in the world and 14th in the world respectively for their achievments haven't done it, while the latest group to do it was 24th, and I'm going to assume 24th respectively before they were world 5th to clear that content.

Again, logic dictates that people quit and now they can't do content. Why? Because people don't like the content. I'll tell you that these are people who got their ass raped every step from ZG to SW. (And Sunwell was hard before nerfs.) So before ya'll go yappin about how all these new guys are struggling, just remember that people who've cleared content like myself. (Hello Done every vanilla and BC raid, done every WotLK.) Is here to tell your asses that I did not find the first few bosses of hard mode Ulduar that hard so I quit. What the fuck is the point? I'm going to spend several weeks farming boring as shit easy content for 2-3 bosses that are a fucking cockblock? Fuck that I am. I raided because the content was challenging and fresh at the begining. BC Trash was boring as crap sometimes, and having to do a bastardized version of Nax pissed me off. The only thing I enjoyed about WotLK so far was the instances. They were fun.

Edited by Sir Kyle Aziz, 23 July 2009 - 02:04 PM.


#60
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QUOTE (zalzaron @ Jul 23 2009, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Play the game before you bash on it for gods sake it's not too much to ask. Just don't comment on the difficulty of ulduar if you have never played through ulduar.

True I haven't done "much" ulduar but the 10 man run I decided to join with my guild after I quit raiding I only died once outside of after a wipe was called because I did not know the proximity of exploding adds on the 2nd boss (the robot one). Thats pretty pathetic, karazhan/za would of kicked my ass the first time in not knowing anything (comparing difficulties of 10 mans).

I would gladly still play the game if you can still play the old content at their intended difficulty, for example level capping you inside the raid instance. Blizzards mentality of abandoning old raid content is so stupid. They even make you buy burning crusade still and you will not touch any of its content when you are at endgame. Any other mmo I played (FFXI) you can play all the content developed up to that point as long as you bought the respective expansions.




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