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Ecstasy and the Law


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#1
Skanky Yoda

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Please do not post in this thread unless you have done more than a "wiki page and a source" of research on ecstasy or tried it yourself. Im sick of Government fan boys posting after reading the police site and wikipedia and saying ZOMG ITS BAD.

I was watching something by the police today on TV and he said
"ecstasy is illegal because we are trying to protect you!"

After thinking about this for about 2 seconds i yelled DOUCHEBAG.
MDMA has been proven to be a relativity safe drug and much mich safer than alcohol and tobacco and here.

The main danger when taking ecstasy, as all users will know, is the adulterants placed in the pills (ie: Caffeine, Heroin (rare), Meth, Speed, DXM, PMA (deadly), Ketamine). Ecstasy is safe by itself but because it is illegal it means it goes to the street and the street market puts all this shit in the pills.

If the government produced ecstasy we would not see such bullshit pills going round, and it could be sources from government outlets in which you can confirm the pills are clean and therefore eliminating the main risk associated with its use.

Additionally on another note, im so sick of reading "when you take ex you overheat and die". If you have decent friends that actually look out for you, and think about what your drinking you will be fine. People die from dehydration and over hydration when NOT on ecstasy too you know...

Anyway what are your thoughts, ideas and opinions on these issues
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#2
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After thinking about this for about 2 seconds i yelled DOUCHEBAG.
MDMA has been proven to be a relativity safe drug and much mich safer than alcohol and tobacco and here.



No.


MDMA can be safer to use if given in a correct dosage and monitored by psychotherapist... and that is still up in the air. Recreational usage of MDMA can and has caused long term neurological problems in users who do not understand what MDMA does or how it affects your brain.


the link you've just given in bias at best.

MDMA can and DOES destroy neurological pathways inside the brain, and when they grow and reform it has the potential of growing abnormalities, causing depression and in some cases symptoms similar to mild autism.

MDMA has mild effect on people with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) though these test have also shown that safer hallucinogens such as LSD and Psilocybin to be a much more effective treatment.

*edit*

the reason for death on MDMA due to "over heating" isn't because the body is hot, but because the body dehydrates. This can be amplified by use of other chemicals that dehydrate you, such as alcohol, caffeine, etc.

On an ironic note, some people know these risks and over hydrate, causing them to die as well.

#3
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ecstasy is safe by itself but because it is illegal it means it goes to the street and the street market puts all this shit in the pills.


So then it loses all form of whatever 'safeness' it had, because now its gone to the street and if you buy it from some sketchy dealer/don't know where its from, you could potentially kill yourself?
Perhaps.

I've got friends that do a shit load of this crap, and they're still breathing & turned out fine. (Sort of <3)

QUOTE
(negative side effects increase with higher doses and frequent use)

inappropriate and/or unintended emotional bonding
tendency to say things you might feel uncomfortable about later
mild to extreme jaw clenching (trisma), tongue and cheek chewing, and teeth grinding (bruxia)
difficulty concentrating & problems with activities requiring linear focus
short-term memory scramble or loss & confusion
muscle tension
erectile disfunction and difficulty reaching orgasm
increase in body temperature, hyperthermia, dehydration (drink water)
hyponatremia (don't drink too much water)
nausea and vomiting
headaches, dizziness, loss of balance, and vertigo
sadness on coming down, sense of loss or immediate nostalgia
post-trip Crash - unpleasantly harsh comedown from the peak effect
hangover the next day, lasting days to weeks
mild depression and fatigue for up to a week
severe depression and/or fatigue (uncommon)
possible strong urge to repeat the experience, though not physically addictive
possible psychological crisis requiring hospitalization (psychotic episodes, severe panic attacks, etc) (rare)
possible liver toxicity (rare)
possible neurotoxicity (controversial)
small risk of death. Approximately 2 per 100,000 users have extreme negative reactions resulting in death. (rare)


#4
Skanky Yoda

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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MDMA can be safer to use if given in a correct dosage and monitored by psychotherapist... and that is still up in the air. Recreational usage of MDMA can and has caused long term neurological problems in users who do not understand what MDMA does or how it affects your brain.


the link you've just given in bias at best.

MDMA can and DOES destroy neurological pathways inside the brain, and when they grow and reform it has the potential of growing abnormalities, causing depression and in some cases symptoms similar to mild autism.


*edit*

the reason for death on MDMA due to "over heating" isn't because the body is hot, but because the body dehydrates. This can be amplified by use of other chemicals that dehydrate you, such as alcohol, caffeine, etc.

Show me a source. Proven evidence that RECREATIONAL use causes that damage. THERE IS NONE! Alcohol kills 150k people per year. I know one of those people. Ecstasy kills 32. From 2006 only 2 of these had only ecstasy in their system and their death was directly caused by ecstasy. Guess what? if you take too much alcohol you can fuck up your brain too.

The BBC produced this over 2 years of research. Explain how this is Bias?

Yes, yes it is. Your body gets hotter, therefore you dehydrate and then douche bags drink too much. This can happen with any drug realistically.

QUOTE
Research on possible long-term adverse effects of MDMA has mainly focused on two areas. The first area is possible serotonergic neurotoxicity. The second area is psychiatric and behavioral problems that might results from MDMA use. These possible adverse effects may be independent. Studies finding serotonergic changes do not always find cognitive-behavioral changes and studies finding cognitive-behavioral changes do not always find serotonergic changes.

This is research SUGGESTED. AND it also clearly states LONG TERM USE. Long term use of any drug can cause the bad effects.


QUOTE (lisa! @ Nov 12 2008, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So then it loses all form of whatever 'safeness' it had, because now its gone to the street and if you buy it from some sketchy dealer/don't know where its from, you could potentially kill yourself?
Perhaps.

I've got friends that do a shit load of this crap, and they're still breathing & turned out fine. (Sort of <3)

Excactly

Im not saying its 100% safe. But now all the safeness is gone...

I know about 100 people that have tried ecstasy, not one of which has died.
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#5
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Those side effects seem fairly true.... except I've never vomited or felt sick... your not suppose to eat before consuming MDMA...

#6
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Show me a source. Proven evidence that RECREATIONAL use causes that damage. THERE IS NONE! Alcohol kills 150k people per year. I know one of those people. Ecstasy kills 32. From 2006 only 2 of these had only ecstasy in their system and their death was directly caused by ecstasy. Guess what? if you take too much alcohol you can fuck up your brain too.



Go to Erowid


now.


Also, its not about dieing, its about fucking up your brain. Don't tell me that if your taking five pills at once you're not going to effect anything and you'll wake up feeling fine the next day... because you WON'T wake up the next day, as you'll still be awake wishing you can go to sleep.

#7
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Go to Erowid


now.


Also, its not about dieing, its about fucking up your brain.

Neurotoxicity: Risk of long term changes to serotonin increases with dose and frequency of use. Controversial.
Have you had an experience with MDMA yourself. If so you know that in small ammounts spread apart it is somewhat worth the small risk?

I read erowid like a christian reads the bible
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#8
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Neurotoxicity: Risk of long term changes to serotonin increases with dose and frequency of use. Controversial.
Have you had an experience with MDMA yourself. If so you know that in small ammounts spread apart it is somewhat worth the small risk?

I read erowid like a christian reads the bible



dude, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? LOL! Have you SEEN my avatar on SBAG?

*edit*

"Controversial" is a statement that has also been associated with evolution, the world being round, us revolving around the sun, etc.

#9
Skanky Yoda

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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dude, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? LOL! Have you SEEN my avatar on SBAG?

*edit*

"Controversial" is a statement that has also been associated with evolution, the world being round, us revolving around the sun, etc.

so your not against ex use?
Then why do you list the massive ammounts of down sides when there are so many more ups >..>
or are there
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#10
Dohregard

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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so your not against ex use?
Then why do you list the massive ammounts of down sides when there are so many more ups >..>
or are there



I'd rather people use other things to experience life and all its grandeur. MDMA is fun... but its NOT good for you at all. It really does fuck with peoples emotional health.

I stopped doing it because of this. You can spout off all kinds of "facts" about how MDMA isn't that harmful for you, but the truth of the matter is it won't kill you, it will just make your life really fucked up.


*edit*

on another note, I'd much rather be you're counter argument than someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

#11
Skanky Yoda

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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd rather people use other things to experience life and all its grandeur. MDMA is fun... but its NOT good for you at all. It really does fuck with peoples emotional health.

I stopped doing it because of this. You can spout off all kinds of "facts" about how MDMA isn't that harmful for you, but the truth of the matter is it won't kill you, it will just make your life really fucked up.


*edit*

on another note, I'd much rather be you're counter argument than someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

Sure, but all drugs will fuck you up one way or another. The realistic amount of fucking up for a single recreational dose is so minute its generally not worth contemplating. Yes there are other things which can help you have a variety of experiences, but I have seen people enlightened and changed from the use of ecstasy then never touched it again.. multiple times.

There are lots of things that are not good for you, but people do it anyway. Yes MDMA is harmful, but I would rather have my life "really fucked up" (??? I dont know how this is possible from controlled and educated usage) than be dead from alcohol poisoning or heroin OD. I enjoy having you as my counter argument. But as a user yourself have you experienced a massive fucked up life.

I know I haven't
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#12
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure, but all drugs will fuck you up one way or another. The realistic amount of fucking up for a single recreational dose is so minute its generally not worth contemplating. Yes there are other things which can help you have a variety of experiences, but I have seen people enlightened and changed from the use of ecstasy then never touched it again.. multiple times.


MDMA is a lot more damaging than most other hallucinogens according to many research studies.

QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are lots of things that are not good for you, but people do it anyway. Yes MDMA is harmful, but I would rather have my life "really fucked up" (??? I dont know how this is possible from controlled and educated usage) than be dead from alcohol poisoning or heroin OD.


I'd rather be dead than addicted, true. At the same time I'd also rather be dead than dead to the world.

How many people do you think use the drugs they hear about from friends responsibly? Most people don't bother to research what they are doing, which is why I think out of everything MDMA can cause the most damage.

QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I enjoy having you as my counter argument. But as a user yourself have you experienced a massive fucked up life.


I don't do MDMA anymore because I noticed what it was doing to me. It really does hurt you after a while. It isn't noticeable until you stop, and even then most people don't realize what is happening to them. It isn't depression, it isn't anything.. its just a deadness.. like you're on an emotional flat line. It's taken a year for me to feel somewhat normal again.



#13
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MDMA is a lot more damaging than most other hallucinogens according to many research studies.
All studies that say so are "inconclusive". There has been no outright conclusion as of yet and neither side has been proven. Once again no proof on either side.


I'd rather be dead than addicted, true. At the same time I'd also rather be dead than dead to the world.
MDMA is not physically addictive.

How many people do you think use the drugs they hear about from friends responsibly? Most people don't bother to research what they are doing, which is why I think out of everything MDMA can cause the most damage.
I think now days a lot of people research the drugs they are taking. Thats such a generalized statement.


I don't do MDMA anymore because I noticed what it was doing to me. It really does hurt you after a while. It isn't noticeable until you stop, and even then most people don't realize what is happening to them. It isn't depression, it isn't anything.. its just a deadness.. like you're on an emotional flat line. It's taken a year for me to feel somewhat normal again.
How many times would you have done it? I know so many people that regularly do extc and I have known them since childhood and have not seen any change in their personality. If you did acid at the same rate or even marijuana im sure you would feel at a similar emotional flat line. Lets just say from experience I have stopped for 4 months after a few drops and I have not felt in the slightest different from before or after. I have felt the same feelings and patterns of emotion my whole life.


Please link me to a reputable source which CLEARLY states and comes to a SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN result suggesting this damage

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#14
Dylantendo

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I've never tried E, and I dont know a whole lot about it. However, I do have friends who have done it. My friend Jordan used to do a lot of E last year when i first got to know him. He was fucking skinny as shit and couldn't keep his back straight because E drains your spinal fluid or some shit. He's stopped since then and he seems to be a lot more normal.

I know some other people who used to do it and I've heard some fucked up stories from them.

Plus I hate e-tards. Raves, candy, pacifiers... sorry but thats just not my thing. I would much rather stick to some good old ganja.

#15
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QUOTE (Dylantendo @ Nov 12 2008, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never tried E, and I dont know a whole lot about it. However, I do have friends who have done it. My friend Jordan used to do a lot of E last year when i first got to know him. He was fucking skinny as shit and couldn't keep his back straight because E drains your spinal fluid or some shit. He's stopped since then and he seems to be a lot more normal.

I know some other people who used to do it and I've heard some fucked up stories from them.

Plus I hate e-tards. Raves, candy, pacifiers... sorry but thats just not my thing. I would much rather stick to some good old ganja.


Thats one i haven't heard before. Spinal fluid drained from e?... Why is it that this is the biggest load of crap ever. x can cause muscle problems in the long run with extreme use and lack of body care, but not this.

Did they know they were taking e, or was it a ketbomb? name some of these "fucked up" stories

How ironic! Weed is the main cause of muscle damage. Why do you think so many stoners have bad posture! Yep, Marijuana causes that. And your saying your friend had a bad back from e.... CANNABIS! AKA GANJA - fail.. hard fail


Also Dohr
QUOTE
According to the 2001 National Drug Household Survey, 6% of the Australian population reported
using ecstasy at some time, and 3% had used it in the last 12 months

Wouldnt this mean that 6% of all the aussies walking around would be fucked in some way? Yet its just not like that. Im not seeing what your talking about... noone is.

QUOTE
• ecstasy users are relatively well-educated, with most having completed high school and
a substantial proportion with tertiary qualifications
• a high proportion of ecstasy users are either employed or engaged in studies

Doesn't this suggest they would have known the effects?


QUOTE
Long term psychological effects
One of the worst fears about Ecstasy is that it may be causing permanent brain damage to users without them being aware of it. It has been suggested that the drug destroys nerve endings or synapses(73), and that eventually users will suffer from depression and senile dementia - the loss of memory and confusion that affects some old people - but at a much earlier age. These fears have not been established. The most damning evidence concluded from a trial is that heavy MDMA users probably had slightly worse short-term memories, but were not depressed nor did they show any other problems that might effect their lives.(156) In another trial, the researchers discovered to their surprise that long term MDMA users scored better than non-users: they were "less impulsive, more harm-avoidant, and have decreased indirect hostility".(157) [More on this trial below under brain damage.]

Some people argue that damage may not show until old age. Serotonin levels decline with age, so MDMA use would exaggerate this decline. This assumes that some negative aspects of old age are linked to lower serotonin, but there is no evidence to support this hypothesis, such as MDMA having an adverse effect on old people.


QUOTE
Permanent damage to health
It is often argued that MDMA has never undergone the rigorous trials demanded of a prescription drug, and therefore carries more risk. The counter argument is that MDMA has been tested by many millions of people over the past twenty years, and that this is a far more stringent trial. It is true this has been done in an indiscriminate way and without controlled conditions, but with such an enormous sample, evidence should have come to light by now if the substance is toxic. Since it has not, it seems fair to conclude that, although there may be unknown damage caused, the risk is no greater than taking a new prescription drug.

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#16
Dohregard

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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please link me to a reputable source which CLEARLY states and comes to a SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN result suggesting this damage



<--- at work or I'd do it.

There are test going either way on this subject, as I'm sure you know. at at the moment either side thinks its right. I believe that is is damaging, and since I'm pretty sure you're still green to it you've not noticed anything.

All that to say, it depends on the users brain chemistry almost as much as the purity of the pill.


QUOTE (Dylantendo @ Nov 12 2008, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never tried E, and I dont know a whole lot about it. However, I do have friends who have done it. My friend Jordan used to do a lot of E last year when i first got to know him. He was fucking skinny as shit and couldn't keep his back straight because E drains your spinal fluid or some shit. He's stopped since then and he seems to be a lot more normal.

I know some other people who used to do it and I've heard some fucked up stories from them.

Plus I hate e-tards. Raves, candy, pacifiers... sorry but thats just not my thing. I would much rather stick to some good old ganja.



Please stop saying things you learned in DARE class. Go read about it on the internet, then think about the illogical statement you just said.

#17
Skanky Yoda

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QUOTE (Dohregard @ Nov 12 2008, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that is is damaging, and since I'm pretty sure you're still green to it you've not noticed anything.

All that to say, it depends on the users brain chemistry almost as much as the purity of the pill.

In once sense i will agree with you that i can be damaging but I guess you need to experience the damage and feel it to understand.

Overall do you regret 100% trying the drug? I mean despite knowing the damages, even if was damaged. I would not regret taking it at all.

PS: This should probably be renamed just extc thread
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#18
Sir_Slik

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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How ironic! Weed is the main cause of muscle damage. Why do you think so many stoners have bad posture! Yep, Marijuana causes that. And your saying your friend had a bad back from e.... CANNABIS! AKA GANJA - fail.. hard fail


Forgive me if I've interpreted this wrong, but you aren't seriously trying to say marijuana causes muscle damage are you? If so I'm going to punch you through the internet.

...

Seriously. And if I would punch you through the internet... ST1D would drop kick you, body slam you, then snap you in half through the fucking internet.
The lunacy of today is the genius of tomorrow.


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#19
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QUOTE (Skanky Yoda @ Nov 12 2008, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In once sense i will agree with you that i can be damaging but I guess you need to experience the damage and feel it to understand.

Overall do you regret 100% trying the drug? I mean despite knowing the damages, even if was damaged. I would not regret taking it at all.

PS: This should probably be renamed just extc thread



I don't regret, man. Regrets only pull you down, I feel as if it taught me something, but I don't feel as if everyone should do it.

it is all about your brain chemistry, and since that changes with the amount of vitamins and other things that you put in your body, it could be any day when you finally get fucked up by whatever it is you're taking.

It is all a big gamble that you will eventually loose, just don't forget to cash out when you're starting to loose or you'll go broke.

#20
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QUOTE (Sir_Slik @ Nov 13 2008, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Forgive me if I've interpreted this wrong, but you aren't seriously trying to say marijuana causes muscle damage are you? If so I'm going to punch you through the internet.

This is going so off topic. I said it wrong. I'm not saying weed is bad so settle down. I'm saying that long term use of cannabis causes your muscles to "relax" shall we say, this is why so many stoners are hunched over. The damage is completely reverseable. If you don't belive me, i actually got this information off my cousin who is studying physiology at uni and alre human biology. I'm not saying its a terrible long life thing, however there is MORE correlation between weed use and a "bad" back than that with e
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