21 replies to this topic

[Dark Ainur]

3 days from now this machine goes on.

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is a gigantic scientific instrument near Geneva, where it spans the border between Switzerland and France about 100 m underground. It is a particle accelerator used by physicists to study the smallest known particles – the fundamental building blocks of all things. It will revolutionise our understanding, from the minuscule world deep within atoms to the vastness of the Universe.

Two beams of subatomic particles called 'hadrons' – either protons or lead ions – will travel in opposite directions inside the circular accelerator, gaining energy with every lap. Physicists will use the LHC to recreate the conditions just after the Big Bang, by colliding the two beams head-on at very high energy. Teams of physicists from around the world will analyse the particles created in the collisions using special detectors in a number of experiments dedicated to the LHC.

There are many theories as to what will result from these collisions, but what's for sure is that a brave new world of physics will emerge from the new accelerator, as knowledge in particle physics goes on to describe the workings of the Universe. For decades, the Standard Model of particle physics has served physicists well as a means of understanding the fundamental laws of Nature, but it does not tell the whole story. Only experimental data using the higher energies reached by the LHC can push knowledge forward, challenging those who seek confirmation of established knowledge, and those who dare to dream beyond the paradigm.

For the people worried:

According to the well-established properties of gravity, described by Einstein’s relativity, it is impossible for microscopic black holes to be produced at the LHC. There are, however, some speculative theories that predict the production of such particles at the LHC. All these theories predict that these particles would disintegrate immediately. Black holes, therefore, would have no time to start accreting matter and to cause macroscopic effects.

I personally can't wait for it to go on. I'd love to know whether the Higgs Boson is real. Particle physics could be on the brink of a major breakthrough. It's an exciting time to be alive!

What do you think about it?

[Garamiah]

Theres already a massive thread on this and what are we meant to be debating?

[Dark Ainur]

Couldn't find thread please link.

[#CaMer0n]

its not exactly hard to find if its at the top of the topic.

[Dark Ainur]

Ok the topic is called "The end of the world experiment". And its pretty much spam. No wonder I didnt find it.

[Garamiah]

Mmm but theres alot of discussion in there. General discussion. Which is what this is, unless of course you were gonna initiate a debate...

[Dark Ainur]

Well what do you think they are gonna find? Is it gonna create a black hole or strangelets?
The whole problems around this seems to public ignorance and people acting on emotion not rational thought. Should these people be allowed to contest this?
There has been a court case trying to shut this down but ECHR has allowed it to continue do you think the is acceptable. I personally do.

[nlitement]

It's launched in October, you idiots. They're only injecting beams. Collisions will happen in October.

[dewoo]

It's launched in October, you idiots. They're only injecting beams. Collisions will happen in October.

That is why it was so funny when people were going "OMG The world will end on September 10th!!!".

[cadetduke]

That is why it was so funny when people were going "OMG The world will end on September 10th!!!".

No, it was funny when people were saying this in May:

http://forums.purepw...showtopic=75888

[TubularLuggage]

I remember someone saying there's only about a 1 in 50,000,000 chance that this thing will destroy us all.
You know what has worse odds? Winning the lottery.
People win the lottery.

[Myth]

I remember someone saying there's only about a 1 in 50,000,000 chance that this thing will destroy us all.
You know what has worse odds? Winning the lottery.
People win the lottery.

actually-

...which comes out at roughly 1 in 13,983,816.

thats the chance to win the lottery btw... really depends what kind of lottery though.

[TubularLuggage]

actually-


thats the chance to win the lottery btw... really depends what kind of lottery though.

Let's assume a really big lottery for the sake of the anicdote.

[Garamiah]

Let's assume a really big lottery for the sake of the anicdote.

Yes but then more than one person goes in a lottery. Say its 1 in 50 million chance a single person will win this lottery. If, for arguments sake, only 1000 people go in this massive lottery (when in reality far more would), its a 1000 in fifty million chance that someone wins. that a 1 in 50000 chance that someone wins.
In this instance, to compare the odds of a black hole being created to someone winning a lottery with odd of 1:50mil, you would have to run the particle accelerator 1000 times.

[Cure]

I don't see how you can compare winning the lottery to the LDC destroying the world. The lottery is solid numbers, its getting all 6 numbers chosen from 49 numbers, it's inevitable that you would win. I get the fact the same could be said about the LDC, but until the beast is actually started up you can't tell me for certain what will happen so you can't say I'm wrong.


Back to the LDC, I really hope it helps us understand where the "fundemtantel laws of nature" come from but I doubt it. They'll certainly have a better understanding of dark matter and the universe as such but I just don't believe we'll ever know how the universe was created. Nothing mankind makes can ever compare to what nature makes.


Hopefully you'll "get" what I mean and if you don't then nevermind. I'm not saying I'm right because that would be stupid, but I'm certainly not wrong, not yet anyway



EDIT:I forgot to add that I don't think the LDC could ever destroy us, I just don't believe mankind could create a black hole. I know someones thinking "mankind can create a black hole", but until I see one (which will never be purposely done because it would destroy us all or we accidently make one somehow) you still can't say im wrong. In the case we do make one you still wont be able to tell me im wrong, becase we'll all be fucked.

[Sir Kyle Aziz]

Yes but then more than one person goes in a lottery. Say its 1 in 50 million chance a single person will win this lottery. If, for arguments sake, only 1000 people go in this massive lottery (when in reality far more would), its a 1000 in fifty million chance that someone wins. that a 1 in 50000 chance that someone wins.
In this instance, to compare the odds of a black hole being created to someone winning a lottery with odd of 1:50mil, you would have to run the particle accelerator 1000 times.

That doesn't change anything lmao.

Just because 10000 people enter it doesn't make the chances for one person to win it better. It just means that there's more then one person in it, and the likely hood of it being won is higher. Doesn't affect one person. Because even if person A enters and person B wins. Person A still looses. So it does't matter if there's 200000 million trillion people in the lottery. The chance of it being won would be 100%, because someone WOULD win it, but that doesn't mean person A has a 100% chance to win. He has the exact same odds as everyone else does.

[Garamiah]

That doesn't change anything lmao.

Just because 10000 people enter it doesn't make the chances for one person to win it better. It just means that there's more then one person in it, and the likely hood of it being won is higher. Doesn't affect one person. Because even if person A enters and person B wins. Person A still looses. So it does't matter if there's 200000 million trillion people in the lottery. The chance of it being won would be 100%, because someone WOULD win it, but that doesn't mean person A has a 100% chance to win. He has the exact same odds as everyone else does.

Yes, every single person who buys a lottery ticket has a 1 in 50 million chance of winning
But in relation to the large hadron collider people are saying 'yea but people win lotteries'
People do win lotteries, but the chances of someone winning the lottery are a lot higher.

For instance, there is a lottery with 1 in 50 million odds of winning
A SINGLE person enters, the chance of any person winning is 1 in 50 million
If 10000 people enter, the chances of any person winning is 1 in 5 thousand

In the case of the large hadron collider
A SINGLE collision takes place, the chance of a collision causing a black hole is 1 in 50 million
If the collider is run 10000 times the chance of of a collision causing a black hole is 1 in 5 thousand

It all comes down to how many trials are in each scenario. The odds of a black hole being created equal the odds of a single person winning the lottery, NOT the odds of the lottery being won.

[Cure]

Mate, I'm sorry but no. The LDC is way to complicated to give it a chance system, it can only go by theories and you can never know, people can believe different things and the chance system can never be a fact. The lottery is a fact, there are only so many combinations in the lottery (6 numbers in any order out of 49 numbers only gives so many combinations) so I really really can't see how you can compare them. That's what it basically comes down to, which when said like that you must agree with.

I know you didn't bring up the lottery in the first place but I needed to make that point clear seems you guys went off topic with debating something totally irrelavant to the original post, and that should have sorted it.




EDIT: Just out of curiousity, how many combinations are there for the lottery?

[Garamiah]

Mate, I'm sorry but no. The LDC is way to complicated to give it a chance system, it can only go by theories and you can never know, people can believe different things and the chance system can never be a fact. The lottery is a fact, there are only so many combinations in the lottery (6 numbers in any order out of 49 numbers only gives so many combinations) so I really really can't see how you can compare them. That's what it basically comes down to, which when said like that you must agree with.

I know you didn't bring up the lottery in the first place but I needed to make that point clear seems you guys went off topic with debating something totally irrelavant to the original post, and that should have sorted it.




EDIT: Just out of curiousity, how many combinations are there for the lottery?

The lottery analogy was entirely based on other peoples statements and the odds that particle physicists who analysed the LHC offered.
At least get the initials right before you tell someone else they're wrong.

[Cure]

The lottery analogy was entirely based on other peoples statements and the odds that particle physicists who analysed the LHC offered.
At least get the initials right before you tell someone else they're wrong.

The chances they give are still only educated guesses, until you can give me proof that its 1 in 50,000,000 that it will destroy the world I am still right in saying you can't compare the lottery's chance to the LHC. It would have been better if someone had said "You'd have a higher chance of dying in an airplane crash", that's all I'm getting at dude.


Stop using peoples theories like they're facts.