104 replies to this topic

[xCarnosaurx]

You americans. Your always talking about how free you are. How your countrys amazing. How patreotic you are (however you spell it). But is this really the case?

A place like china and the middleeast, they are upfront with the rights of there people. They just treat them bad and they don't really care what anyone thinks.

But your countrys a little more sneaky it seems. You have to listen to everything you shady goverment says, yes. But they say it like its your choice or that they are working to help you.

Have you noticed if someone speaks agaisnt your goverment they are labeled a terroist? They get shot down? Zapped? Taken off TV?

What about micro chips? What about this war in iraq? Is your country really that amazing??

Someone in a "Worse" country than yours, they are kept busy trying to stay alive, unable to fight back. But your country, you are told up front something important, but your too busy looking at what britney spears is doing or watching some silly american comidy. Your ruled by the media.

Do you stop playing games for a moment to question your goverment? If you take a moment to look.... you may find alot of bad things going on...

what do you think?

[anatomy187]

Words...

I have never heard of any of these things before because I'm just too busy watching TV and eating at McDonald's.

Oh wait...NO SHIT!

The only people who think America is fucking amazing and has never done anything wrong ever are close-minded, semi-retarded people. Not all Americans are like this, and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of American gamers believe the same thing. Although our Government does some shady things, says they are protecting freedoms when they are actually restricting them; every powerful country with crooked people in charge or pulling the strings from behind the curtains does the same thing.

"Oh China's cool because they are upfront and just tell their people they suck!" Yeah I'm sure that is the case. They spread the same or worse propaganda and I'm sure plenty of people there believe that their country is only trying to help them as well. Every nation that has someone in charge has them working for whoever is willing to do the most and pay the most for them to do it, no exceptions. It is truly a rare sight to see a leader who completely respects the people's voice and opinions when making their decisions rather than companies, rich bureaucrats and other influential people.

Many many people in America are tired of the Bush regime's shit, and although I don't personally blame Bush himself for all of it because he seems way to dumb to mastermind half of this stuff, he is basically seems like he's just the puppet in charge to take the hits. There are definitely people influencing his actions to serve their own purposes; namely big American companies and rich upper-class Republicans.

Anyway, way to go stereotyping an entire country when in fact there is a big split between people who think the government is perfect and only doing shady things to protect them and people who realise it's just another person or group trying to get more power for themselves at the expense of others.

But thanks for the Newsflash; I'm sure this will enlighten many people. The truth is that the people who you described won't believe what you say because they already have their minds set and refuse to see what is in front of them, and the ones that I described that don't fit your American stereotype already know.

And a shitload of people speak against the government very openly and aren't "shot down" and taken to Guantanamo. That is something that doesn't often happen in places like China. The government can try as they might for full censorship for themselves but luckily we have a wonderful thing called "Separation of Powers" and this Constitution thing to protect us from those people.

The pendulum of what the government does swings back and worth with each new President that is elected after the last ones made the people in the country pissed off at whichever party was in charge before. So things are bad, then balance back out, then get better, and swing back...which side is better depends on your personal political views.

Hopefully this shows you and people in other countries who think America is just totally full of shitbags that this is not the case. There are still plenty of sane people here, don't worry.

[DHC]

Our patriotism stems FROM our love of freedom, our respect for our liberties, and our ability to openly question the government - the latter of which is an integral part of society, and the mass media as well. I'll address your points in order:

Your arguments are based on the assumption that anyone who dissents is labeled a terrorist - this is hardly the case, and in the VERY few instances when that has been the case (which hasnt been for some time), it was mostly the abuse of the system by local authorities who needed reason to hold people unlawfully. However, I have met hundreds of dissenting citizens, there exist MILLIONS of dissenting citizens, and absolutely no action has ever been taken against us. Why? Because our system revolves around public discourse, in order to progress our society. Ive never seen them "zapped," and I frequently see them on TV - these days, much more often than supporters of the current administration and/or congress.

Micro chips, eh? Well, sure, everyone produces those.... If youre referring to wire tapping, that was deemed illegal, and while it is almost certain that it is still being done, there exists this level of paranoid security worldwide - it is certainly not exclusive to the United States. If youre referring to the RFID and mandatory domestic passports, that was shot down, and I dont think most Americans would stand for that anyways. But our representatives made quick work of that proposal, including many conservatives.

The War in Iraq is a shame, but is it an abridgement of our freedoms? More accurately, it is the courts granting too much authority through "implied powers" to the President, however this has been the case since the early 60's. There is no draft, so although it is definitely a morally questionable war, and quite possibly an illegal one, it is again not abridging any of our rights or liberties.

I agree there is a huge problem with the media covering pop culture, but that has nothing to do with the quality of a nation, its principles, or its citizens. It has to do with the role of mass media as competitive business overshadowing its roll as a public informer. As for seeing things and doing nothing, well - America is one of the most charitable nations in the world, much more so than the more socialized nations of Europe. Could we do more? Absolutely! Is the rest of the world innocent of turning a blind eye to global issues? Definitely.


As for your last "suggestion" - I implore you to check through this debate forum. I believe youll find plenty of us questioning our government


It is unfair for you to make these false assumptions about Americans, due to your opinions of its current leaders' policies, and use those assumptions to criticize American freedoms - freedoms which much of the world won't see for hundreds of years

[confrico]

look at your daily life, and you'll realize that freedom is 10% political and 90% economic.

[Pawnator]

What about micro chips?

Contrary to popular belief, we Americans are not implanted with or made to carry tracking micro chips.

Have you noticed if someone speaks agaisnt your goverment...They get shot down? Zapped? Taken off TV?

I probably haven't noticed that because it's not true.

So, how's NZ's government been treating the Maoris lately?

[w4r10r]

Let's see here, umm, just about everyone makes fun of president bush.

There are people constantly protesting outside the white house.

I also have the right to vote, freedom of speech, and have you read the New York Times?

Who was ever labeled a terrorist for speaking out against the government? The only time in American history that this has ever happened was when the alien and sedition acts were passed by the federalists in the late 1700's to keep immigrants from voting due to the power they were giving to the republican party. This marked the end for the Federalists and the Republican party (today the democratic party) gained the presidency with Thomas Jefferson.

And to compare us to a communist country.. dude srsly.. get your facts straight.

[Christron]

what do you think?

To start off, i think this was one of the most painful things to read in respect to grammar. I don't, however, blame you for your ignorance on American life and freedom... as we're typically stereotyped in the way you just described it. Having lived all over the world, I've had the opportunity to absorb the way a lot of cultures operate...


never mind ^that was my attempt to post in the debate section, i just... can't do it... I mean, reading over everyone's replies in this thread, you said exactly what i meant to say without flaming. In real life i can debate my ass off, because i know if i went all out like you guys did and the guy i was debating replied with "lol k" or ignored what i said completely, I'd fucking choke him out.

My hat's off to you debate section, all of you.

[cadetduke]

what do you think?Z

I think what everyone else already said, though I have to comment on the following.

Have you noticed if someone speaks agaisnt your goverment they are labeled a terroist? They get shot down? Zapped? Taken off TV?

I don't see how you even came to that conclusion, elaborate because that's the complete opposite of what I see.

[ST1DinOH]

http://forums.purepw...showtopic=73284

^TBH

[Pawnator]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/45342.php
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0802/S00001.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0307/S00029.htm
Wow, your government is still revoking native treaties and stealing their land?
I'm impressed, we gave up on that over a century ago.

[ST1DinOH]

<a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/45342.php" target="_blank">http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/45342.php</a>
<a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0802/S00001.htm" target="_blank">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0802/S00001.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0307/S00029.htm" target="_blank">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0307/S00029.htm</a>
Wow, your government is still revoking native treaties and stealing their land?
I'm impressed, we gave up on that over a century ago.

pwned

[Fusion.]

Who was ever labeled a terrorist for speaking out against the government? The only time in American history that this has ever happened was when the alien and sedition acts were passed by the federalists in the late 1700's to keep immigrants from voting due to the power they were giving to the republican party.

Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? Replace the word terrorist with communist, and voila. But yes, most of this guy's points are bullshit. The US Government won't arrest you for calling them shit However, suggesting you'll fire a mortar at the White House from the Rockefeller Hewitt because of minimal security and a clear line of sight at the President's bedroom, yeah, you'll get in some shit.

[MaxDamage]

Someone in a "Worse" country than yours, they are kept busy trying to stay alive, unable to fight back. But your country, you are told up front something important, but your too busy looking at what britney spears is doing or watching some silly american comidy. Your ruled by the media.

Do you stop playing games for a moment to question your goverment? If you take a moment to look.... you may find alot of bad things going on...

TBH, this sounds like the opinion of someone who's opinion is based solely on information from movies, games and perverted media.

A touch ironic, no?

It's not that you don't have a point, there *are* some simple truths within your OP, but you are clearly not intellectually armed for debate.

[DestroyMan]

look at your daily life, and you'll realize that freedom is 10% political and 90% economic.

ive been telling people this forever but noone listens.

[Pawnator]

ive been telling people this forever but noone listens.

Must be your delivery. Pairing your political philosophies with a manifesto to annihilate human kind isn't a good way to sell your points.

[confrico]

ive been telling people this forever but noone listens.

because negative emotions are more powerful and dramatic than positive ones. the idea of a man oppressing us is stirring.

americans take for granted the freedom to spend money. we look at the political oppression by china, but the chinese love the fact that economic control is minimal and that they can freely partake in economic activity.

[Pawnator]

we look at the political oppression by china, but the chinese love the fact that economic control is minimal and that they can freely partake in economic activity.

*in the special economic zones. Partially.

[DHC]

americans take for granted the freedom to spend money. we look at the political oppression by china, but the chinese love the fact that economic control is minimal and that they can freely partake in economic activity.

it is the fact that they DONT have economic freedom that keeps China from taking over the world

it is nearly impossible to be an entrepreneur in China, due in no small part to a COMPLETE LACK of any kind of domestic court system, let alone one with the ability to manage and direct business. this is what keeps everyone there in near poverty, less those fortunate enough to get into business with a foreign partner (their law requires any foreign investor to own no more than 50% of a company).

not to mention their tax rate for anyone of decent income is higher than that of the USA (although lower than most of Europe)

[confrico]

it is the fact that they DONT have economic freedom that keeps China from taking over the world

it is nearly impossible to be an entrepreneur in China, due in no small part to a COMPLETE LACK of any kind of domestic court system, let alone one with the ability to manage and direct business. this is what keeps everyone there in near poverty, less those fortunate enough to get into business with a foreign partner (their law requires any foreign investor to own no more than 50% of a company).

not to mention their tax rate for anyone of decent income is higher than that of the USA (although lower than most of Europe)

that sorta describes the old west in the united states

[moor w rot]

.

So, how's NZ's government been treating the Maoris lately?

you want to know how maoris get treated? too kindly in my opipinion . they cvan just say this land sprital tribal meaning . hen claim it . it can be total bullshit sometime. they try to incourage the maori to become higher educated with scolarship and tribal payout if you belong to a certain iwi. so how are the american indains going? destroy their culture yet?