104 replies to this topic

[DHC]

you want to know how maoris get treated? too kindly in my opipinion . they cvan just say this land sprital tribal meaning . hen claim it . it can be total bullshit sometime. they try to incourage the maori to become higher educated with scolarship and tribal payout if you belong to a certain iwi. so how are the american indains going? destroy their culture yet?

I think youve had enough for tonight. Would you like me to call you a cab?

[xCarnosaurx]

I Didnt say china was cool.

I know the stereotype, but to be honest in NZ its more that americains like kfc and mcdees and they have very little knowledge that they arn't the only country on the planet.

If you see something on the news do you beleave it? Or do you question it?? I find it werid that so little is done. It took so long for any groups to form about 9/11.

Please don't get angry, I was just wondering what you think of america, and it seems alot of you care more than I thought.

Lol, NZ is a sad country. I want to leave it so bad. Its gotten so terrible here. Yea the natives rule us. They get benefits, they get so many hand outs its not funny. For instance, at my college if your maori you can get a scholorship worth up to about 6000 dollars nz. I can't because I'm a kiwi. I am the underdog in my country it seems. And the fact that maoris have a high rate of unemployment (we pay so much out to the people on the doll), high rate of child abusse and crime makes it even worse.

Then the fact that the country is one big farm, all the rivers are being polluted and farmers use all the water. and guess what, we pay massive amounts of money for dairy products. Werid huh?

Then the crime, many people getting killed from gangs, the goverment has no idea what they are doing, and everythings going to hell here. Plus nzers are the worst people you could meet.

SO no, this country isn't perfect.

But we don't have power. Your country does. Thats why its more worrying

[confrico]

If you see something on the news do you beleave it? Or do you question it?? I find it werid that so little is done. It took so long for any groups to form about 9/11.

ahh, i see where you're trying to go with this

[fykusfire]

You americans. Your always talking about how free you are. How your countrys amazing. How patreotic you are (however you spell it). But is this really the case?

A place like china and the middleeast, they are upfront with the rights of there people. They just treat them bad and they don't really care what anyone thinks.

But your countrys a little more sneaky it seems. You have to listen to everything you shady goverment says, yes. But they say it like its your choice or that they are working to help you.

Have you noticed if someone speaks agaisnt your goverment they are labeled a terroist? They get shot down? Zapped? Taken off TV?

What about micro chips? What about this war in iraq? Is your country really that amazing??

Someone in a "Worse" country than yours, they are kept busy trying to stay alive, unable to fight back. But your country, you are told up front something important, but your too busy looking at what britney spears is doing or watching some silly american comidy. Your ruled by the media.

Do you stop playing games for a moment to question your goverment? If you take a moment to look.... you may find alot of bad things going on...

what do you think?

[ST1DinOH]

?

[Fryslagg]

Our patriotism stems FROM our love of freedom, our respect for our liberties, and our ability to openly question the government - the latter of which is an integral part of society, and the mass media as well. I'll address your points in order:

Your arguments are based on the assumption that anyone who dissents is labeled a terrorist - this is hardly the case, and in the VERY few instances when that has been the case (which hasnt been for some time), it was mostly the abuse of the system by local authorities who needed reason to hold people unlawfully. However, I have met hundreds of dissenting citizens, there exist MILLIONS of dissenting citizens, and absolutely no action has ever been taken against us. Why? Because our system revolves around public discourse, in order to progress our society. Ive never seen them "zapped," and I frequently see them on TV - these days, much more often than supporters of the current administration and/or congress.

Micro chips, eh? Well, sure, everyone produces those.... If youre referring to wire tapping, that was deemed illegal, and while it is almost certain that it is still being done, there exists this level of paranoid security worldwide - it is certainly not exclusive to the United States. If youre referring to the RFID and mandatory domestic passports, that was shot down, and I dont think most Americans would stand for that anyways. But our representatives made quick work of that proposal, including many conservatives.

The War in Iraq is a shame, but is it an abridgement of our freedoms? More accurately, it is the courts granting too much authority through "implied powers" to the President, however this has been the case since the early 60's. There is no draft, so although it is definitely a morally questionable war, and quite possibly an illegal one, it is again not abridging any of our rights or liberties.

I agree there is a huge problem with the media covering pop culture, but that has nothing to do with the quality of a nation, its principles, or its citizens. It has to do with the role of mass media as competitive business overshadowing its roll as a public informer. As for seeing things and doing nothing, well - America is one of the most charitable nations in the world, much more so than the more socialized nations of Europe. Could we do more? Absolutely! Is the rest of the world innocent of turning a blind eye to global issues? Definitely.


As for your last "suggestion" - I implore you to check through this debate forum. I believe youll find plenty of us questioning our government


It is unfair for you to make these false assumptions about Americans, due to your opinions of its current leaders' policies, and use those assumptions to criticize American freedoms - freedoms which much of the world won't see for hundreds of years

I agree with everything you have written here except the part were you say that the United States are most charitable country. If you are going to compare foreign aid you have to compare the percentage of the GNI that we give and in that case I dare say that all the Scandinavian countries give a larger percentage of their GNI. If I remember correctly Sweden give 1.02% of our GNI and the United States give almost a fifth of that. I can be mistaken since it was over a year ago that I heard this at a seminar, but I think that if you look it up you will find out that I am right.

[DHC]

I agree with everything you have written here except the part were you say that the United States are most charitable country. If you are going to compare foreign aid you have to compare the percentage of the GNI that we give and in that case I dare say that all the Scandinavian countries give a larger percentage of their GNI. If I remember correctly Sweden give 1.02% of our GNI and the United States give almost a fifth of that. I can be mistaken since it was over a year ago that I heard this at a seminar, but I think that if you look it up you will find out that I am right.

In terms of GNI, sure! But that includes government spending

In terms of GDP, in which you measure only the individuals, Americans are at the top of the game. My arguments were for Americans, not our nation as a whole

[fykusfire]

?

[DHC]

less spam in debate, please

[fykusfire]

Do this again and youll start losing posting privileges -Doug

[ya_ba]

A place like china and the middleeast, they are upfront with the rights of there people. They just treat them bad and they don't really care what anyone thinks.

china and the middleeast,

Ok, so you are comparing China and the Middle East?

I live in the ME, and it's not THAT bad in here, the government treat us not too badly....

China? China is... Special and pretty.

[w4r10r]

Its gotten so terrible here. Yea the natives rule us. They get benefits, they get so many hand outs its not funny. For instance, at my college if your maori you can get a scholorship worth up to about 6000 dollars nz.

Mexicans

a similar problem we're having with the border dispute/illegal immigration.

[ClassicalWarlock]

Go live in North Korea where you have no access to the outside world. That would be so much better then living in America..

I admit America has A LOT of room for improvement.

This war- Wrong
This President- Wrong.

I bet your another 15 year old communist who lives with there Upper-middle class parents in an all-white neighborhood..

[DHC]

I bet your another 15 year old communist who lives with there Upper-middle class parents in an all-white neighborhood..

consider this a verbal warning

We expect you to debate WITHOUT resorting to personal attacks. Debaters are welcome to dispute the validty of an argument or point, but no where do you have the right to attack the person.

[Fusion.]

Ok, so you are comparing China and the Middle East?

I live in the ME, and it's not THAT bad in here, the government treat us not too badly....

China? China is... Special and pretty.

Don't know how to say this politely, but you are an Israeli. Israel does tend to be more human rights friendly than the Islamofascist countries there.

Mexicans

a similar problem we're having with the border dispute/illegal immigration.

Lol at comparing those. Compare the Natives to them, maybe. Not illegal immigrants. Well done saying all Mexicans are illegal immigrants, by blaming it on solely Mexicans. Tell tale sign of a closet racist right there.

Go live in North Korea where you have no access to the outside world. That would be so much better then living in America..

I admit America has A LOT of room for improvement.

This war- Wrong
This President- Wrong.

I bet your another 15 year old communist who lives with there Upper-middle class parents in an all-white neighborhood..

Agreed with this entire post. Warlock, even if what you say is true, you really don't need to point it out :/. Atleast cover it up. Don't just say he IS one, beat around the bush.

[anatomy187]

Mexicans

a similar problem we're having with the border dispute/illegal immigration.

Uh, wouldn't the closest US equivalent be Native Americans? Many Natives where I'm from can get government checks monthly in the realm of $1000 or so. Of course there aren't enough of them for it to even be a real issue and they probably deserve it anyway.

Illegal Immigrants don't get any special benefits, they don't have to pay income taxes because they are obviously here illegally but they are still affected by the Sales Tax in places like California where there are a high percentage of them. Also if they own property they likely pay Real Estate Tax as well. And it can definitely be argued that they actually help spur the economy rather than hurt it. They don't take jobs from Americans, they take jobs no one else fucking wants for less money.

The problem with Illegal Immigration is that the government spends about 25 billion a year providing welfare, Medicaid, food assistance etc. to Illegal Immigrants and doesn't know wtf they are doing in regards to stopping it.

"Let's build a big fucking wall!" "No that is a terrible idea...let's build a big fucking moat!"

Pure genius.

And for the record only about half of all illegal immigrants are from Mexico.

[Pawnator]

Mexicans

a similar problem we're having with the border dispute/illegal immigration.

Well done saying all Mexicans are illegal immigrants, by blaming it on solely Mexicans. Tell tale sign of a closet racist right there.

I invoke Straw Man and Straw Golliwog on w4r10r's behalf. He specified a border dispute with MEXICO, and was talking about the fact that there have been problems with MEXICAN illegal immigrants.

[Fusion.]

I invoke Straw Man and Straw Golliwog on w4r10r's behalf. He specified a border dispute with MEXICO, and was talking about the fact that there have been problems with MEXICAN illegal immigrants.

Fair enough, can't really argue against them as their both totally valid. Ignoring my remark on whether or not he's racist, the point's valid. Perhaps if the Maori were from Australia, and they were immigrating into NZ illegally, and still getting the benefits, THEN his comparison would be valid. However, their not. The Native Americans, however, are much more comparable.

[Pawnator]

What really angers me is people who, as soon as native Americans begin to make economic headway, want to strip their government benefits.

[DHC]

What really angers me is people who, as soon as native Americans begin to make economic headway, want to strip their government benefits.

what, free hand-outs based solely on their race? I'm against that - it seems very unamerican