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Humanity


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#41
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 20 2008, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lennon was killed by a case of Mistaken Identity

It's still murder

#42
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QUOTE (Brown_Cyclone @ May 20 2008, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hooray for bill hicks

thats another thing to think about...
animals kill the weakest, you know the runt of the litter, while we kill the strongest, those who will lead out society to a better place, JFK, Lennon, Hicks etc..


Hicks would have killed himself eventually had he not died of cancer. Everything he respected and loved and wanted for people was ignored and he was condemned to sit in a corner and make jokes to an audience that never understood him and never followed his prophetic instructions. Maybe he was too used to trying too hard to do that... but I figure he was kind of at wit's end by the end of his life. If you find his last performance on YouTube it's obvious he's out of patience with humanity. Whether or not he could have retreated into his T.V. show is up in the air, but the fact that you can watch him on YouTube would probably have pissed him off.
Or, he would have though of the Internet as humanity's saving grace, despite their ridiculous abuse of the services it allows.

Anyway, enough speculative Hicks rambling... humans being the "best" is reliant on your definition of the word. If by best you mean the most overpowering and intelligent species, that's cool. Because we are. We've fucked everyone over. With that in mind, I personally don't believe a human being is worth anymore than a dog. Often they're worth less. Or even worthless. Because we're no different from most animals, and the only real advantage our intellect has given us is an astute knowledge of our superiority. But why are we superior? There is no concrete evidence in the first place. Are we any smarter than a cat who lives its life lazing around hunting mice? I've never seen a crying cat. People use a lot of excuses to find ways in which their life could be "perfect." A cat doesn't need any. Neither does a dog. Or any animal other than a human being.
And what are humans then, but a species so caught up in their own superiority they ignore their own downfall? Because there are a lot of unhappy humans.
This constant instinct to compare ourselves to anything else reminds me of a murderer defending himself at a trial. When it comes to speculation, it's easiest to point everywhere but at yourself...

#43
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QUOTE (Brown_Cyclone @ May 20 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's still murder



you were making the notion that Lennon was killed for being a powerful person, which is not true.




QUOTE (VulgaritySocks @ May 21 2008, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hicks would have killed himself eventually had he not died of cancer. Everything he respected and loved and wanted for people was ignored and he was condemned to sit in a corner and make jokes to an audience that never understood him and never followed his prophetic instructions. Maybe he was too used to trying too hard to do that... but I figure he was kind of at wit's end by the end of his life. If you find his last performance on YouTube it's obvious he's out of patience with humanity. Whether or not he could have retreated into his T.V. show is up in the air, but the fact that you can watch him on YouTube would probably have pissed him off.
Or, he would have though of the Internet as humanity's saving grace, despite their ridiculous abuse of the services it allows.

Anyway, enough speculative Hicks rambling... humans being the "best" is reliant on your definition of the word. If by best you mean the most overpowering and intelligent species, that's cool. Because we are. We've fucked everyone over. With that in mind, I personally don't believe a human being is worth anymore than a dog. Often they're worth less. Or even worthless. Because we're no different from most animals, and the only real advantage our intellect has given us is an astute knowledge of our superiority. But why are we superior? There is no concrete evidence in the first place. Are we any smarter than a cat who lives its life lazing around hunting mice? I've never seen a crying cat. People use a lot of excuses to find ways in which their life could be "perfect." A cat doesn't need any. Neither does a dog. Or any animal other than a human being.
And what are humans then, but a species so caught up in their own superiority they ignore their own downfall? Because there are a lot of unhappy humans.
This constant instinct to compare ourselves to anything else reminds me of a murderer defending himself at a trial. When it comes to speculation, it's easiest to point everywhere but at yourself...


The ability for you to make that statement is proof of our superiority. As you said we don't have it any better than any animal, other than the fact that we don't have to worry about something trying to eat us every day, but at the same time, you could worry about someone shooting you every day of your life, but that's YOUR decision. Our ancestors made our choice for us in terms of making were we live, how we behave. We live in a time were we don't have much contact with the outside world, and have even created a world that isn't even tangible. Our ability to comprehend and express our findings is a vastly unique aspect of us as creatures. Sure, we don't have the luxury of being oblivious to anything outside our "territory" and sure , we don't lack complex emotions, but how does that make us less impressive? Since when is an emotion a genetic flaw? "We get sad, we MUST be inferior to a cat because cats are never sad" they don't know what sad is. Animals are just robots with a pulse. Nothing around them effects them, they do what there instincts tell them to and after a while, they reproduce and die, there is no life there. How can you say that you'd rather be oblivious to the life you have rather than feel a bit of pain. I'd rather enjoy the pain while its here, because its worth it for the experience.

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#44
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 21 2008, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you were making the notion that Lennon was killed for being a powerful person, which is not true.

i said he could have led our society to a better place, not he had a gun or was the leader of a country man

and one final note on hicks, he hated humanity sure, but he also had hope for it, he wouldn't have killed himself

#45
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QUOTE (Brown_Cyclone @ May 22 2008, 06:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i said he could have led our society to a better place, not he had a gun or was the leader of a country man


Power comes in different forms


QUOTE (Brown_Cyclone @ May 22 2008, 06:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and one final note on hicks, he hated humanity sure, but he also had hope for it, he wouldn't have killed himself



He did A LOT of drugs.

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#46
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 22 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Power comes in different forms





He did A LOT of drugs.


That just made me think, what other species (lemmings excluded) has such self destructive tendencies as the human species? Most people spend their entire lives doing things that they know will eventually kill them, when you think about it, we intentionally poison ourselves! That sounds pretty idiotic to me but yet even though i know it's idiotic i still do it myself!

Animals also seem to have the practice of equal rights down better than we ever will. They whole hive and pack mentalilty works much better, than communism, capataism, autocrats, etc. Humans will always be selfish, and that is how we have fought our way to the top of the food chain. It doesn't make us better, just successful - the two should never be confused.

#47
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 22 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He did A LOT of drugs.

Probably not that many TBH.
Dr. John Sentamu is a fantastic man.

#48
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QUOTE (techno-ninja @ May 23 2008, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That just made me think, what other species (lemmings excluded) has such self destructive tendencies as the human species? Most people spend their entire lives doing things that they know will eventually kill them, when you think about it, we intentionally poison ourselves! That sounds pretty idiotic to me but yet even though i know it's idiotic i still do it myself!


It's very true. Our transcendence from the fear of the inevitable seems to have given us a new found freedom in this light. Though most people when it comes down to it will fear death the closer they get to it.


QUOTE (techno-ninja @ May 23 2008, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Animals also seem to have the practice of equal rights down better than we ever will. They whole hive and pack mentality works much better, than communism, capitalism, autocrats, etc. Humans will always be selfish, and that is how we have fought our way to the top of the food chain. It doesn't make us better, just successful - the two should never be confused.



The thing is, and this may come out racist. We ARE pretty good about equal rights, for our own races. We are all of different races and skin tones, and within that we have always been "hesitant" of the other skin colors. not matter what anyone says it is true. If you put a fox in with some other dog, they won't get along.

It is a truth that people don't understand, because we refuse to put ourselves on the level of an animal, we still have this notion that we don't have instincts that we have mentally evolved from.

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#49
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 23 2008, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing is, and this may come out racist. We ARE pretty good about equal rights, for our own races. We are all of different races and skin tones, and within that we have always been "hesitant" of the other skin colors. not matter what anyone says it is true. If you put a fox in with some other dog, they won't get along.

It is a truth that people don't understand, because we refuse to put ourselves on the level of an animal, we still have this notion that we don't have instincts that we have mentally evolved from.

hmm.. I see you point, no matter what we do there will always be the 'natural animal instinct' that people will try to deny as it isn't deemed as 'sophisticated', when in actual fact we do exactly the same as animals in reference to dominance, territory, protection, etc, we just have turned a survival instinct into an elaborate picture.

#50
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QUOTE (techno-ninja @ May 23 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hmm.. I see you point, no matter what we do there will always be the 'natural animal instinct' that people will try to deny as it isn't deemed as 'sophisticated', when in actual fact we do exactly the same as animals in reference to dominance, territory, protection, etc, we just have turned a survival instinct into an elaborate picture.



true, but I see this as our primal urges so much as a common law. a majority of the major countries have adapted to eradicate this primal thought, and eventually, when the whole world is mixed in with each other, these thoughts will subside and we can progress ever further from the rest of the animal kingdom.

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#51
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 23 2008, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
true, but I see this as our primal urges so much as a common law. a majority of the major countries have adapted to eradicate this primal thought, and eventually, when the whole world is mixed in with each other, these thoughts will subside and we can progress ever further from the rest of the animal kingdom.


But some primal urges actaully benefit humans as a whoel, what would happen if the dominance instinct was bred out of us? Without the need to be the best, there will be less drive in things such as the stock market, without the need to be seen as the best, would anyone bother? Do you think that society would be able to survive with apathy? Sorry if this sounds a little hostile, it's not meant to be, i'm genuinly curious about your thoughts on it.

#52
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QUOTE (techno-ninja @ May 23 2008, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But some primal urges actaully benefit humans as a whoel, what would happen if the dominance instinct was bred out of us? Without the need to be the best, there will be less drive in things such as the stock market, without the need to be seen as the best, would anyone bother? Do you think that society would be able to survive with apathy? Sorry if this sounds a little hostile, it's not meant to be, i'm genuinly curious about your thoughts on it.



we could really do without the stock market, but that is besides the point.

Dominance differs from a Competitive spirit because in the spirit of competition your not trying to stamp out the opponent, your trying to become better than them. Ingenuity is derived for a desire to create, not a instinct to overpower. In the end, it the human race will not become less aggressive, but more tolerant. This in my opinion will be a double-edged sword

This tolerance won't come from understanding (imo) as I would hope, but just because it will soon be hard to know were a person comes from by there skin color. Then after everyone has a common language, the only thing that will be left to discriminate against is regional dialects, and even that will eventually be erased. So eventually we will just become tolerant because there is nothing to tolerate. We'll all be gray, but I would hope that this won't happen before we can mentally tolerate other cultures.

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#53
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QUOTE (Dohregard @ May 23 2008, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we could really do without the stock market, but that is besides the point.

Dominance differs from a Competitive spirit because in the spirit of competition your not trying to stamp out the opponent, your trying to become better than them. Ingenuity is derived for a desire to create, not a instinct to overpower. In the end, it the human race will not become less aggressive, but more tolerant. This in my opinion will be a double-edged sword

This tolerance won't come from understanding (imo) as I would hope, but just because it will soon be hard to know were a person comes from by there skin color. Then after everyone has a common language, the only thing that will be left to discriminate against is regional dialects, and even that will eventually be erased. So eventually we will just become tolerant because there is nothing to tolerate. We'll all be gray, but I would hope that this won't happen before we can mentally tolerate other cultures.


A bit of a scary thought really. The fact that tolerance will only come with merging instead of integration seems a horrible thought, a completeley homogonised society. I think it's the cultural differences that in a way make society work better.

I know we've got the religious wars and what not but if every culture was the same, where would inspiration come from? There would be absolutley no reason to travel, no art that reflects a unique culture, education would suffer because everybody would be learning the same thing and even debate would be muted colours because experiences would be similar over the whole spectrum of grey.

Personally i think part of humanity is the differences each culture brings, and although i love the idea of a completely integrated and accepting society, i can honestly see it going the grey way, especially with the fad of political correctness sweeping the world.

#54
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QUOTE (techno-ninja @ May 23 2008, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A bit of a scary thought really. The fact that tolerance will only come with merging instead of integration seems a horrible thought, a completeley homogonised society. I think it's the cultural differences that in a way make society work better.

I know we've got the religious wars and what not but if every culture was the same, where would inspiration come from? There would be absolutley no reason to travel, no art that reflects a unique culture, education would suffer because everybody would be learning the same thing and even debate would be muted colours because experiences would be similar over the whole spectrum of grey.

Personally i think part of humanity is the differences each culture brings, and although i love the idea of a completely integrated and accepting society, i can honestly see it going the grey way, especially with the fad of political correctness sweeping the world.



Exactally. The end of all wars will be the end of our evolution in a sociological stand point. Though the bit about no reason to travel wouldn't make since, because I'd enjoy a change of scenery every now and then, but That's the point I was trying to get across. Humans are not going to be fully excepting ever, if we were it'd be very boring world. The thing that I would enjoy seeing is the end of the "I hate you because I don't understand you" portion of it. I think us as a people should be allowed to make fun of each other for our differences, because it shows that we understand each other as a individual, so much to the point that its funny to pretend to be intolerant.

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#55
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QUOTE (Brown_Cyclone @ May 14 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
animals survive
humans live

expand define those term "live" and " survive"




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