1712 replies to this topic

[way2lazy2care]

Im beginning to, i guess we will just have to wait to see if im wrong or not.

Because another crisis will get the senate, house, state governments, and the supreme court to hand sole ruling power over to bush...

You're incredibly ignorant if even a piece of you thinks that's a remote possibility.

[TubularLuggage]

So Super Tuesday and the days leading up to it have left me pretty fucking disillusioned.
I really wish the Libertarian Party had a stronger presence in the States.

It's absolutely insane the level of bias in the mainstream media regarding the Republican race, on all sides of the political spectrum.
News stations are supposed to report news, meaning the facts regarding what has happened, and what is happening. Instead, their political coverage is about 95% opinion, trying to narrow the field as the see fit. Notice that as soon as there were only two democrats left, they all tried making the republican race seem like a two person race as well, in spite of Huckabee still being very much in the running.

Personally, I was strongly in favor of Ron Paul. Leading up to Super Tuesday, the media mostly pretended he didn't exist, often referring to there being three candidates. When they did mention him, they basically demonized him.
It's not exactly a shocker though if you look at it. One of his big things was replacing the federal reserve. The fed controls the money, and has insane levels of influence over corporations. TV networks are corporations.
Mike Huckabee actually made a great statement on the matter, though more referring to the media counting him out. He basically said candidates need to be decided by the people, not the media and pundits. He was dead on.

[Fin]

Personally, I was strongly in favor of Ron Paul. Leading up to Super Tuesday, the media mostly pretended he didn't exist, often referring to there being three candidates. When they did mention him, they basically demonized him.

thats because no sane person ever thought it was possible for him to win, and super tuesday has confirmed it.

Mike Huckabee actually made a great statement on the matter, though more referring to the media counting him out. He basically said candidates need to be decided by the people, not the media and pundits. He was dead on.

I maybe just a ignorant foreigner, but you americans dont choose your candidates by "Who spent most time on Picture Box" now do you?
Huckabee had his 15mins of fame, he even made headlines here in Finland and had nice coverage on the news papers / TV.

but as the results show..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22997326/

American people dont want him.

[ST1DinOH]

Over the weekend I overheard Hillary Clinton saying that the current administration is doing a good job. I couldn't find any articles confirming this so I can back it up, but if that is true, what are your thoughts? Has the current administration done anything good that can be noted in a favorable opinion and that the next President should continue to do?

are you kidding me?

bush has done a ton of good shit.

it's a sad, sad state of affairs when people only know about what the talking heads and commie funded websites say about a man.

just a quick google search brings up a ton of stuff, but i'll just post this link to get you started

<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066122/posts" target="_blank">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066122/posts</a>

EDIT:

lol...OMG some of the "accomplishments" in that list are rather subjective...so just weed out the good from the opinion. statements like "single handedly held the nation together after 9/11" are quite a bit over the top. whoever wrote this quite literaly has a man crush on GW...

but anyway that list is a decient one if you can stomach a few of the objective statements in there.

oh and also...just ignore the shit about abortion and religion...thats not an accomplishment that bettered the nation unless that kinda shit is important to you. if someone finds a less objective list that'd be nice.

Im beginning to, i guess we will just have to wait to see if im wrong or not.

super-duper-mega-uber-massive-epic-legendary-FACEPALM

i just facepalmed so hard it left a mark.

[LastCatch]

stuff

sadly though, he won't get credit for any of the stuff he did right for another 20 years. everything just simply get overshadowed by iraq.

[TubularLuggage]

thats because no sane person ever thought it was possible for him to win, and super tuesday has confirmed it.

A lot of people are easily swayed, and you'd be shocked how many Americans believe pretty much everything one of the major news networks tells them. Therefore, if they're told there are only three (in some cases two) candidates, and Paul isn't among them, they won't give him a second look. Also, if their beloved pundits repeatedly insult a candidate, they'll believe it whether it's true or not.
People are supposed to vote for the person they agree, but they usually end up voting for whoever they think other people will choose.

I maybe just a ignorant foreigner, but you americans dont choose your candidates by "Who spent most time on Picture Box" now do you?
Huckabee had his 15mins of fame, he even made headlines here in Finland and had nice coverage on the news papers / TV.

but as the results show..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22997326/

American people dont want him.

I'm not American.
Sadly, a lot of Americans do choose their candidate that way.

The main issue is that pretty much every news station decided as soon as there were 2 democrats left that there should only be 2 republicans left as well. They repeated and repeated that McCain and Romney were the only "real" candidates. It's very tragic how many people are swayed by the whole 'front runner' mentality, voting for someone deemed a front runner because they want their vote to count. In truth, it's actually very harmful to a real democracy. It's exactly why the media needs to fuck off and actually let the people decide, and it's why every primary and caucus should be held on one day; to give every candidate a more equal shot.
Huckabee's performance on Super Tuesday is actually a testiment to certain people not wanting McCain or Romney in spite of media efforts.

[ST1DinOH]

sadly though, he won't get credit for any of the stuff he did right for another 20 years. everything just simply get overshadowed by iraq.

exactly like regan.

the overall impact of his accomplishments won't be fully appreciated for a long time. people hated regan now all these canidates, even democratic ones, are priasing regan for his econmic vision.

the tax cuts alone make bush a great president. and when the "war" in the middle east is all said and done and that whole region is able to self regulate and control it's fanatisism and stop harboring and funding extremeists...how will the world see him then?

you wanna see a bad president just wait untill the next one gets in. there ain't much to chose from. i don't see a single canidate (thats got a chance) that will be good for this country.

[nlitement]

Was the US even founded as a democracy? Democracies rarely work well, because a lot of people just don't know what the hell they're doing (read: Clinton supporters, especially).

[TubularLuggage]

the tax cuts alone make bush a great president. and when the "war" in the middle east is all said and done and that whole region is able to self regulate and control it's fanatisism and stop harboring and funding extremeists...how will the world see him then?

Just like how everyone has forgotten all about that silly Vietnam war and now praises Lyndon Johnson for his other policies, right?
I don't know what kind of dillusional fantasy world you're living in, but Bush is going to go down in history as the guy who's administration started a senseless war. Nevermind that any positive impact his tax cuts may have had on the economy were more than offset by the cost of that war.
The middle east certainly wasn't stable before, but the US going in like that did nothing but exacerbate things.

[ST1DinOH]

Just like how everyone has forgotten all about that silly Vietnam war and now praises Lyndon Johnson for his other policies, right?
I don't know what kind of dillusional fantasy world you're living in, but Bush is going to go down in history as the guy who's administration started a senseless war. Nevermind that any positive impact his tax cuts may have had on the economy were more than offset by the cost of that war.
The middle east certainly wasn't stable before, but the US going in like that did nothing but exacerbate things.

lol

well i guess it kinda helps to look at the big picture rather than get caught up in all the sensationalist bullshit people seem to *fap* to around here.

it's funny how when you focus on the "no blood for oil" signs and allthe socialist bullshit you loose sight of whats actually going on over there.

this whole situation has been brewing for decades, the UN ( and most of the rest of the world) has been sitting on it's hands like a 18 yr old getting his first couch dance...whiel the US is in the back room having a threesome with the two hottest strippers in the club.

[9sam1]

Because another crisis will get the senate, house, state governments, and the supreme court to hand sole ruling power over to bush...

You're incredibly ignorant if even a piece of you thinks that's a remote possibility.

He won't need the consent of anyone, he has already created laws like the patriotic act which allows him to violate every single liberty that Americans have by searching their homes without a warrant and detaining them without a fair trial or a lawyer and then torturing them etc. etc.

[TubularLuggage]

lol

well i guess it kinda helps to look at the big picture rather than get caught up in all the sensationalist bullshit people seem to *fap* to around here.

it's funny how when you focus on the "no blood for oil" signs and allthe socialist bullshit you loose sight of whats actually going on over there.

this whole situation has been brewing for decades, the UN ( and most of the rest of the world) has been sitting on it's hands like a 18 yr old getting his first couch dance...whiel the US is in the back room having a threesome with the two hottest strippers in the club.

Sensationalist bullshit?
There's a war going on for absolutely no reason.
Socialist bullshit? Care to elaborate? This isn't a fucking partisan issue. People from any political direction should be able to realize how fucked up it is that their country went to war for literally no reason, and that American troops are dieing in vain.
If it were really about WMDs, but there weren't any. So then it was about catching Saddam, which they did. Then it was about stopping the terrorists, in spite of them not being in Iraq before the war, and making up a very small percentage of the insurgency.

I never said "no blood for oil". I'm against invading a country that in no conceivable way was a threat.

Now, there's no "good" solution. There's going to be violence whether the US stays in or withdraws. There will be less though if the US withdraws. Let the locals deal with their own country for a change.

[Pawnator]

The war is over.

It's an insurgency now.

[way2lazy2care]

I never said "no blood for oil". I'm against invading a country that in no conceivable way was a threat.

not only the means but the motive to make and use chemical weapons with a history of using those chemical weapons on his own people. Unless you don't find chemical weapons threatening...

Theres a huge difference between Iraq and vietname. Iraqis generally want us there. The people fighting us in Iraq are in a large part NOT Iraqis. Once Iraq has the people trained to defend itself against them, this war will come out smelling like roses, and I will be able to sit back on my couch and call everyone ignorant hippies for wanting to pull out in the middle of it.

[cadetduke]

He won't need the consent of anyone, he has already created laws like the patriotic act which allows him to violate every single liberty that Americans have by searching their homes without a warrant and detaining them without a fair trial or a lawyer and then torturing them etc. etc.

Wikipedia agrees about the Patriot Act:

The USA PATRIOT Act, commonly known as the Patriot Act, is an Act of Congress that President George W. Bush - a complete R-tard signed into law on October 26, 2001. The acronym stands for: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (Public Law Pub.L. 107-56).
RAWR!!!!

[Master C]

not only the means but the motive to make and use chemical weapons with a history of using those chemical weapons on his own people. Unless you don't find chemical weapons threatening...

Theres a huge difference between Iraq and vietname. Iraqis generally want us there. The people fighting us in Iraq are in a large part NOT Iraqis. Once Iraq has the people trained to defend itself against them, this war will come out smelling like roses, and I will be able to sit back on my couch and call everyone ignorant hippies for wanting to pull out in the middle of it.

For crying out loud, would you stop trying to justify it?

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo</a>

We have long since realised that we were lied too. Our leaders have admitted it. When will yours?

Do you think Iraqis still approve of the invasion now (I couldnt find figures but I know it is below 50% approval in Iraq)?

Do you think Saddam killed more civilians then the invasion did?

Do you think that any government put in now wont eventually fall to corruption/dictatorships?

Do you think that the world is a safer place after the invasion? Iraq, once in control of a totalitarian dictatorship is now a new heart of terrorism.

Realise ffs.

P.S. Lazy I have nothing but respect for you but c'mon man.

[way2lazy2care]

For crying out loud, would you stop trying to justify it?

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo</a>

We have long since realised that we were lied too. Our leaders have admitted it. When will yours?

he had the means and the motive to create chemical weapons, which he had previously used on his own people.

Do you think Iraqis still approve of the invasion now (I couldnt find figures but I know it is below 50% approval in Iraq)?

yes I do. We're the only thing keeping them safe and unopressed. Do you still approve of your country having police officers and a military?

Do you think Saddam killed more civilians then the invasion did?

you do know he's estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Do you think that any government put in now wont eventually fall to corruption/dictatorships?

yes.

Do you think that the world is a safer place after the invasion? Iraq, once in control of a totalitarian dictatorship is now a new heart of terrorism.

yes, and I think it will be even safer once we finish. It's not a heart of terrorism. It's a target, and imagine how huge a hit having educated people in a country in the middle east would be to terrorism.

We need to be there. The job isn't done yet.

[Fin]

Iraq War you say?
http://www.dailystar...rticle_id=88687

AMMAN: When Saad Tawfiq watched then-US Secretary of state Colin Powell's presentation to the United Nations on February 5, 2003, he shed bitter tears as he realized he had risked his life and those of his loved ones for nothing. As one of Saddam Hussein's most gifted engineers, Tawfiq knew that the Iraqi dictator had shut down his nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs in 1995 - and he had told his handlers in US intelligence just that.

And yet here was Powell - Tawfiq's television was able to receive international news through a link pirated from Saddam's spies next door - waving a vial of white powder and telling the UN Security Council a story about Iraqi germ labs.

"When I saw Colin Powell, I started crying - immediately. I knew I had tried and lost," Tawfiq told AFP five years later in the Jordanian capital, Amman.

[Master C]

he had the means and the motive to create chemical weapons, which he had previously used on his own people.


yes I do. We're the only thing keeping them safe and unopressed. Do you still approve of your country having police officers and a military?


you do know he's estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.


yes.


yes, and I think it will be even safer once we finish. It's not a heart of terrorism. It's a target, and imagine how huge a hit having educated people in a country in the middle east would be to terrorism.

We need to be there. The job isn't done yet.

Well some of those points we can agree to disagree on (by the way I feel that someone must remain in Iraq as things are, but not British troops who if anywhere should be in afghanistan). However Ive never heard of saddam killing 100's of thousands, a few thousand yes (including combatant rebels) but not anywhere near 100 thousand. Also I know approval for the actual invasion itself (not neccessarily whether they still want americans in the country) is very low.

[way2lazy2care]

Well some of those points we can agree to disagree on (by the way I feel that someone must remain in Iraq as things are, but not British troops who if anywhere should be in afghanistan). However Ive never heard of saddam killing 100's of thousands, a few thousand yes (including combatant rebels) but not anywhere near 100 thousand. Also I know approval for the actual invasion itself (not neccessarily whether they still want americans in the country) is very low.

he killed hundreds of thousands. He killed 10s of thousands sometimes in a matter of days. I've seen estimates between 180 and 300 thousand throughout his regime.

Iraq was a shitstorm to deal with. If we invaded sooner, there's a huge chance we would have actually found evidencee of the production of chemical weapons if not the weapons themselves, if we waited till later there's a good chance we could have dealt with it a little more diplomatically. There wasn't an especially good way to deal with it, but it had to be dealt with either way.