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Is The Western World Doomed?


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#1
airsniper

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ill explain. every democracy has begun with slavery and ended in revolution. so the greeks didnt get it right. the romans had the republic, but did you know it was illegal to execute a woman if she was a virgin in rome? so they would take virgin women to the stairs where criminals were put to the sword, rape them, and then kill them...is that what we should look to as an example? as i read deeper into greco-roman history i find countless acts of this kind. i marvel at the fact we patterned our governments after them at all. why are we surprised we run into problems...

what say you?

why did our forefathers choose to follow these examples? are we doomed to repeat their mistakes? should we alter our governments now that we know more of greco-roman times?
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#2
nlitement

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I could've just written a long and insightful response, but that's hopeless.

Only one thing to say: FACEPALM.
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#3
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All of civilization is doomed if the western world is doomed, but I never said that wasn't going to happen did I?


If we are doomed its not going to be in our lifetime (imo), unless 2012's solar maximum takes out all the satellites like i think it will..... YEA DARK AGES!

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#4
Fin

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QUOTE
i marvel at the fact we patterned our governments after them at all. why are we surprised we run into problems...

you are not seriously comparing Romans to modern day lets say.. Denmark?

#5
TubularLuggage

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Guys, you heard it here first. Western democracy is doomed because the Romans raped virgins.
It's certainly not the obvious and visible corruption in the American government.

Also, the Greeks basically did get it right. The only thing that ruined them was a giant army coming in and killing them, and I don't think that had anything to do with their system of government.
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#6
Magic Johnson

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Is it balls. We're here to stay. Of course I'm assuming there won't be a stupid nuclear war or anything, but we'll rule the world for a long time to come. It's less Western rule, more white rule. And you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. Call that racist as hell, ignorant as hell, immoral as hell, but let me ask you leftie hippie scumbags, would you rather be in Africa right now? No? Didn't think so. I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me.


#7
TubularLuggage

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QUOTE (Magic Johnson @ Oct 7 2007, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it balls. We're here to stay. Of course I'm assuming there won't be a stupid nuclear war or anything, but we'll rule the world for a long time to come. It's less Western rule, more white rule. And you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. Call that racist as hell, ignorant as hell, immoral as hell, but let me ask you leftie hippie scumbags, would you rather be in Africa right now? No? Didn't think so. I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me.

I'm actually not sure who you're calling a lefty hippie scumbag.
Also, you know there are black people in the west and white people in Africa, right?
Oh, and that there's a distinct possibility that the next president of the United States could be a black man.
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#8
Magic Johnson

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Yes I do, but lets not kid ourselves. The white people in Africa are either in South Africa (typical example), or are there for charity work.

And why the second stupid comment? You know this is a white world, it's not fair, but considering I'm white, I'm not going to complain.


#9
airsniper

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well, both the romans and greeks bribed citizens for their votes during elections, and by todays standards thats considered corruption. Gaius Julius Caesar went so deep into dept bribing for his election, he had to wage war and sack innocent kingdoms in order to repay it all lol. how would this unprovoked aggresion be classified by todays standards? greece waged war with neighbors simply to increase the number of slaves it held. yet our forefathers thought they could pick and choose ideas produced by these two empires without incuring the same results. the romans have been credited with so many achievements in civilization building that recently have been discovered to be eutruscan innovations, the very same ppl the romans waged genocide on...

im no hippie, im for a strong military, and im for freedom, as well as having ppl raised from birth to lead nations. im not sure you could descibe my politics, but being of the western world i want the best for it. just these romans and greeks were such newbs.
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#10
TubularLuggage

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QUOTE (Magic Johnson @ Oct 7 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I do, but lets not kid ourselves. The white people in Africa are either in South Africa (typical example), or are there for charity work.

And why the second stupid comment? You know this is a white world, it's not fair, but considering I'm white, I'm not going to complain.

It's only a "white world" because everyone else was held back by white people for the better part of the 20th century.
So basically, since I'm not being a racist fuck, my comment is stupid?

As for airsniper's comments, you do raise more valid points in this post than in your OP. Yes, the Romans were pretty corrupt.
Still, I don't think that has much bearing on our current society.
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#11
airsniper

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thx TL, but my OP was only meant to trigger the initial discussion. if you let me - my OP would be 14 pages but who whould read it.

thing is, we have to look at the greeks and romans with very objective eyes, especially since so much new information has surfaced and even more has been translated. i dont think its completely true that you can pick and choose ideals without seeing why they were adopted as part of the greco-roman control system, everything they touched became corrupted even in their fairest laws. as borders blur, and we start to address things in global terms, we have to re-examine a good many things about ourselves as well as our neighbors. i mean we overthrew kings for a popularity contest and it still hasnt changed much, in some cases its worsened.
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#12
Remijdio

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What I wonder is, does the technology we have in place now put us in a worse position as the Romans and Greeks or in a better position?
In the "age of information" is it really hard to keep anything bad secret? Also, it's also hard to determine what is truth and what is fiction amongst this massive flood of information.
If the downfall of Western society is coming, who will lead the surge? Will it be religious fanatics or evil aliens from the world Marklar?

#13
Magic Johnson

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QUOTE (TubularLuggage @ Oct 7 2007, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's only a "white world" because everyone else was held back by white people for the better part of the 20th century.
So basically, since I'm not being a racist fuck, my comment is stupid?

As for airsniper's comments, you do raise more valid points in this post than in your OP. Yes, the Romans were pretty corrupt.
Still, I don't think that has much bearing on our current society.


Oh get real mate, if you were really that bothered you'd leave everything the West has given you and go and live in Nambia. Our entire society as we know it has been built on immorality.


#14
nlitement

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What you consider cruel now was considered normal back then. What if we go a bit farther, to the time when we didn't have cultures and acted like wild animals do nowadays? They "rape" each other, "murder" each other, "steal" from each other, and do many other things that we consider unethical nowadays. Yes, I understand that you're pointing out how bright we consider them despite their manners, but knowledge and science are separate of ethics.
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#15
airsniper

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thing is that 4-600 years ago the translated texts and histories available for study was such a tiny sliver compared to whats available now. add to that that even the cheapest form of reading material (books) were still cutting edge tech and damned expensive. the only ppl who could read were wealthy, and those of them who actually studied and went to university were even fewer. yet these wealthy students are the ppl who spearheaded revolts, along with coup savy generals and this minority of ppl made the choice for the majority lol which is again against the very principles they say they followed. i mean we're stuck with it, but the eventual curruption has surfaced as it did in rome and athens. oh, and this isnt a western owned world, not by a long shot, dont fool yourself. i may be blonde haired and green eyed, but im no mans better, and im a minority on this rock.
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#16
Magic Johnson

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Yes it is a Western owned world.


#17
airsniper

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lol, its so not, and thats another thing. all great empires of the past and arguably the present have been wonder builders. the longer a monumental wonder existed, more followers would be drawn to that civilization. logic being safety and dominence in their area was implied by the monument. consider our gov't structures as a monument. the worlds other cultures, as we near a global community (we arent there yet, local gov'ts are stalling it) are going to look at what we've based what you lot consider our predestined right. lol, we're going to point to the greeks and romans...

since the bulk of this forum is 14-17 its a good time to examine roman and greek cultures with a critical eye. Machiavelli wrote in his Art of War that the best age for recruiting a long standing army was 14. consider yourselves an army of change.
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#18
Magic Johnson

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How is it not?


#19
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Going to be honest here, I dont see your point airsniper.

#20
airsniper

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QUOTE (Fin @ Oct 8 2007, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Going to be honest here, I dont see your point airsniper.

the electoral college, parliment, both ideas rooted in flawed systems, and shams tbh. elections are a failure, in every democratic nation only a relatively small number of ppl actually vote. i just think its important, given the problems and practices of the past, that we should know and discuss them so they dont occur in OUR future. not a bad thing.
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