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Super Smash Bros. Brawl Discussion Thread

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#7841
Anth0ny

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QUOTE (Unseen Killa @ Oct 30 2008, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, we should start Brawling eachother again. I remember when Brawl came out we always Brawled eachother, now we never do (the contributors to this topic).

Solution?


We make Nintendo give us lagless online.

Which isn't possible :/

I beat Jarett in Tetris. Once. Then he beat me four times straight. But still, I beat him once!

#7842
Master C

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QUOTE (Unseen Killa @ Oct 30 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, we should start Brawling eachother again. I remember when Brawl came out we always Brawled eachother, now we never do (the contributors to this topic).

Solution?


friendly tourney and try and ignore the lag?

icon_sad.gif

#7843
Ineffable

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I'm in!
Oh wait. I live in Australia.

#7844
Infernoblaze

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QUOTE (Unseen Killa @ Oct 30 2008, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is it retarded? The reason people can't combo is because you can airdodge/attack during hitstun. At least I'm 99% sure this is how it is.

No, hitstun is the lag you recieve after being hit by an attack during which you cannot perform any action, hence the whole stun idea, it's not hitstun if you can do stuff during it which is what I was trying to say: There is little to no hitstun in brawl.

An example would be that if you load up melee, have one character shield and then hit that character with... say.... ganon's foward air and as it hits have that player hammer A to try and grab through shield. They can't because the hit puts some shield/hit stun on them, if you repeat that in brawl the player can grab as soon as the move connects (likelyhood is you'll miss because it will knock you backwards but you can still grab them). It's basically what you said that they can airdodge/attack after being hit only the difference being that in the first example there is hitstun. In the second there is not. The only thing close to hitstun they have in the game is the moves that knock you int othe most excellently named state of warbrgaaarbl (or something like that) where your character spins around and can't do anything.

Ah man if only ninty could make decent online. If only icon_sad.gif

#7845
Unseen Killa

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Oh, my mistake, they actually increased hitstun, lol.

#7846
RoieTRS

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Just random, but I've been rather irked about people questioning yoshi's viability:

-Yoshi is viable: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/karamity2" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/karamity2</a>

-From smash wiki:
"Yoshi ranks 32nd on the Tier List due to his fairly poor matchups and lacklustre tourney results. However, he is considered the best Meta Knight counter (one of the only characters to hold a 50:50 or better match against Meta Knight) and one of the best Wario counters in the game despite his tier placement, and this alone may see him rise soon enough. "
Reason enough right there, as it stands. (Meta knight is #1, Wario is #8, Yoshi is #32)

-He has two spike-moves (Fair and Dair)

-All of his ground smashes are decent or better in terms of damage and knockback, but they are also very quick and have a quite a big range. For instance, his upsmash can reach people standing directly above him on the platforms on battlefield and shashville.

-Yoshi doesn't die. Ever. With the fastest air speed in the game, as well as his huge egg-recovery buff, you practically need to knock him far enough back to kill him, or he'll recover.

-Invincibility frames during is second jump.

-From smash wiki:
"Yoshi's major advantage is in his grab-release on a large number of cast members. He currently has a grab-release on at least eleven cast members, and he can grab-release-spike seven of those, including Meta Knight. This is the main reason why he is considered an effective choice against Meta Knight. "

-immune to shield-poking.

-Egg throw opens up tons of edge-guarding combos, even if they dodge it. IE: egg throw, Bair, double jump then Uair

-Edge canceling eggs - While holding on the edge, let go, throw an egg, and instantly grab back onto the edge, renewing invincibility.
QUOTE (h3r1n6 @ Jan 18 2009, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sanktuin, Junge echt jetzt, der Post ist unlesbar.

#7847
Unseen Killa

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QUOTE (RoieTRS @ Oct 31 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just random, but I've been rather irked about people questioning yoshi's viability:

-Yoshi is viable: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/karamity2" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/karamity2</a>

-From smash wiki:
"Yoshi ranks 32nd on the Tier List due to his fairly poor matchups and lacklustre tourney results. However, he is considered the best Meta Knight counter (one of the only characters to hold a 50:50 or better match against Meta Knight) and one of the best Wario counters in the game despite his tier placement, and this alone may see him rise soon enough. "
Reason enough right there, as it stands. (Meta knight is #1, Wario is #8, Yoshi is #32)

-He has two spike-moves (Fair and Dair)

-All of his ground smashes are decent or better in terms of damage and knockback, but they are also very quick and have a quite a big range. For instance, his upsmash can reach people standing directly above him on the platforms on battlefield and shashville.

-Yoshi doesn't die. Ever. With the fastest air speed in the game, as well as his huge egg-recovery buff, you practically need to knock him far enough back to kill him, or he'll recover.

-Invincibility frames during is second jump.

-From smash wiki:
"Yoshi's major advantage is in his grab-release on a large number of cast members. He currently has a grab-release on at least eleven cast members, and he can grab-release-spike seven of those, including Meta Knight. This is the main reason why he is considered an effective choice against Meta Knight. "

-immune to shield-poking.

-Egg throw opens up tons of edge-guarding combos, even if they dodge it. IE: egg throw, Bair, double jump then Uair

-Edge canceling eggs - While holding on the edge, let go, throw an egg, and instantly grab back onto the edge, renewing invincibility.


Yeah, Yoshi sounds good on paper, but until people actually use him to his advantage and win a bunch of tournies I think his tier placement is correct. IIRC, UDP's Yoshi is really good, havn't played him in ages though. Yoshi just isn't a popular character.

#7848
Infernoblaze

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Figured I might as well chuck this in here:

QUOTE
Originally Posted by Overswarm:
At first look he's awful, then he's great, and then he's just mediocre.

Yoshi has a few things in several matchups that make him not worthless. He has a few strengths that can REALLY surprise you. How many people have played against a Yoshi only to find themselves take an easy 40% from them spamming eggs? How many have been pivot grabbed by a Yoshi when they dashed to prevent them from throwing eggs? How many have been killed by a uair at surprisingly low %?

Unfortunately for Yoshi, these strengths don't make up for his weaknesses. His shield is ridiculously bad; while it can't be shield poked... you can just wait the moment Yoshi shields and then capitalize. Yoshi's recovery, while good as far as distance is concerned, can be less than adequate; turning off tap jump and using eggs first slightly alleviates this problem, but Yoshi is one of those characters that ends up getting tossed off the side of the stage a lot.

One of Yoshi's biggest issues is that there is rarely a time where he is at an advantage. On the ground? In the air? Recovering? Edgeguarding? He is just sub-par in all these areas when the opponent is on equal footing.

Yoshi will be a great surprise character and a smart player can get some early KOs with him to make him viable... but on the whole, he won't be too amazing.


#7849
RoieTRS

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QUOTE
His shield is ridiculously bad; while it can't be shield poked... you can just wait the moment Yoshi shields and then capitalize.

Yoshi's shield does indeed suck, which is why you tend not to use it as much as you would regularly. Sometimes just avoiding the situation is better than blocking it.

QUOTE
Yoshi's recovery, while good as far as distance is concerned, can be less than adequate; turning off tap jump and using eggs first slightly alleviates this problem, but Yoshi is one of those characters that ends up getting tossed off the side of the stage a lot.

Wait, what's wrong with yoshi's recovery? "Less than adequate"? Not a good reason, but I can see it nonetheless. Whose recovery IS adequate? Marth's? IMO yoshi's got him beat. Pit's? His beats everyone's, but you can't attack during it. 3D's? Probably the best in the game, yet still not what I'd call "Adequate". I can honestly see why its more bad than good, but somethings, like being able to up+B and then double jump, is a plus. I'm not saying its good, I'm just saying its not as bad as you think.

All other points I agree with, but those two just seem to make him seem worse than he is.
QUOTE (h3r1n6 @ Jan 18 2009, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sanktuin, Junge echt jetzt, der Post ist unlesbar.

#7850
Infernoblaze

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Please bear in mind that I know NOTHING about yoshi, that was a summary of the points made by the smash back room who all probably know far more than any of us here about every char. All I can say on ths shield front is that it's better to have the decent shield and not use it than not have it and be forced to not use it.

#7851
Hadean

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*Bump* So tourney?
<-- Mains.

#7852
Unseen Killa

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Idk, it appears people aren't motivated too, so I welcome anyone who wants to Brawl to contact me at:

aim: ska84eternity
msn: birdfeather@yahoo.com
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I'm on aim the most.


#7853
UDP

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I got a wireless router so I got my wii online, but I think they must block it or something because I couldn't even connect to Mario Kart online, so I doubt brawl would work. I got like weather, news, and the internet channel to work though.

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#7854
old gregg

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sorry, my pathetic comment was misleading. i didn't mean switching to metaknight to win tourneys was pathetic, cause if it's the only means of winning it's common sense. while reading into the MK situation i kept being sidetracked by other Brawl links and found something i'd define to be over the top. i can't even remember what it was now, if i weren't lazy i'd go look.

i don't at all understand my Brawl online, 90% of my matches are like a slow moving flip book (no doubt because i have a brick wall between my wii and router), yet i've had one or two matches that were flawless, and i mean flawness, not a glimpse of lag, another few with tolerable lag, and yet even when i verse a friend of mine who lives 40mins away the lag can be unplayable.

i still stand by my comment that using lower ranked tiers would be a better display of skill. like if you watched two good brawlers fight, one using MK ans Snake and another Capt. Falcon and Link and MK brawler only just managed to win each time who would you say is the all over better brawler? kind of like bringing a knife to a gunfight from my point of view.
ever drank Bailey's from a shoe?

#7855
d4rbzz

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A little late on this one, but I've gotta say, Yoshi gets absolutely ripped to shreds by a good Marth. Not that anyone cares about Marth anymore.

Not a big Yoshi fan personally, I think it's really hard for him to get around some characters. Haven't seen him against MK though so I don't really know.

#7856
Infernoblaze

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QUOTE (old gregg @ Nov 20 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i still stand by my comment that using lower ranked tiers would be a better display of skill.

No. To say this is simply naive. It's more applicable with brawl but I'm going to use melee for my scenario. In melee you could have two players playing, ooh say bowser (woo yeah icon_biggrin.gif) and they could get VERY good with him and show a high display of skill. However the amount of skill you CAN show with bowser could NEVER match that of fox. The technical ability of fox (and falco for that matter) was phenominal. What many people said about fox's character is that he was only limited by the player using him (not stritcly true) and that if played by a god he would be unstoppable because the character has this potential. The more potential a character has to do things like the conbos fox could produce, the more skill it takes to master them. Brawl's not so good in this case since the techincal side is so dumbed down but my point still stands.

#7857
old gregg

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my view was purely from brawl, though i do agree that you're right with fox and combo thing.
ever drank Bailey's from a shoe?

#7858
Hadean

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Lol i like the fact that people actually believe smashwiki.

You guys DO know it's a running gag on smashboards that overswarm managed to convince people that yoshi is a 1 for 1 counter against metaknight. Just like regular Wiki, anyone can input anything, including this serious lulz.

So... Smash tourney?
<-- Mains.

#7859
UDP

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QUOTE (Hadean @ Nov 27 2008, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol i like the fact that people actually believe smashwiki.

You guys DO know it's a running gag on smashboards that overswarm managed to convince people that yoshi is a 1 for 1 counter against metaknight. Just like regular Wiki, anyone can input anything, including this serious lulz.

So... Smash tourney?

Maybe not regular yoshis, but my yoshi is a 1 for 1 counter against metaknight. j/k


To the tourney, I can't play due to university internet. For some reason they allow Xbox live but I can't play any online wii games.

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#7860
ips17

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I've been playing brawl with my friends a lot, they who actually own the game, and I can hold my own(well.. not die first). I don't get a lot of KO's, but for a beginner, I'm not terrible.

Thing is, I play Link. Who is very low in the tiers. I mostly die to ring outs(up + b but no side + b dash, could be wrong, like I said, don't own the game).

I'll be getting this soon, and my brother has a net enabled wii, never paid much attention to wii so I'm not sure about how the networks and online play works, so I'll have to have a rummage and bit of exploration.

Anyway, I'm up for a tourney.

Should probably post a thread in challenge about this? I wouldn't mind organising it if theres enough people interested, and after a bit of research of course.

I'd probably get trashed but *shrugs*




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