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Gun Control


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#41
Michelle Kenobi

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I am okay with Gun Control in the sense that the government should have an idea of what guns people are buying and where. That way they can limit or stop sale of guns to minors, convicts, etc. I also am okay with waiting ten days which is what my bf and I had to do for our rifle.

I am not okay with being told I'm not allowed to have guns. This is not some right-wing thing, I am pretty liberal politically, but it is that same suspician of government that makes a gun ban a joke. I would not be comfortable knowing any government agent/soldier can have a gun... but not me? I think the fact the USA was founded on a group of people that didn't like the government they had is why the second amendment (right to bear arms) was created. Thomas Jefferson firmly believed that an ideal society was impossible without revolution every 20 years. The basic idea is people need to protect themselves not only from invaders, but possibly from their own government should it fall into the wrong hands.

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#42
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Nice post.
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#43
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QUOTE (Michelle Kenobi @ Feb 27 2007, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am okay with Gun Control in the sense that the government should have an idea of what guns people are buying and where. That way they can limit or stop sale of guns to minors, convicts, etc. I also am okay with waiting ten days which is what my bf and I had to do for our rifle.
I am not okay with being told I'm not allowed to have guns. This is not some right-wing thing, I am pretty liberal politically, but it is that same suspician of government that makes a gun ban a joke. I would not be comfortable knowing any government agent/soldier can have a gun... but not me? I think the fact the USA was founded on a group of people that didn't like the government they had is why the second amendment (right to bear arms) was created. Thomas Jefferson firmly believed that an ideal society was impossible without revolution every 20 years. The basic idea is people need to protect themselves not only from invaders, but possibly from their own government should it fall into the wrong hands.


WRONG!

The waiting after you buy a gun is just ridiculously stupid. I can't even tell you the number of stories i have read, where people rush to buy a gun because of a sudden threat that has entered their lives (violent husband, stalker, etc.) and because of the wait that is issued when buying a gun, many of these people fell victim to the peson they were defending themselves from, before they recieved their firearm.

#44
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (rightwingguy @ Feb 27 2007, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WRONG!

The waiting after you buy a gun is just ridiculously stupid. I can't even tell you the number of stories i have read, where people rush to buy a gun because of a sudden threat that has entered their lives (violent husband, stalker, etc.) and because of the wait that is issued when buying a gun, many of these people fell victim to the peson they were defending themselves from, before they recieved their firearm.


ok...

this is a hard one...

the obvious flip side to your stance is real easy to understand...

the person constituting that "sudden threat in thier lives" can't just decide to flip out, run to walmart, buy a gun, and then go shoot someone.

if someone is feeling so threatened that they feel they need a gun to protect themselfs, then they need to first purchase a damn taser or at least some pepper spray. they should take that 10 day time frame and go to a shooters training course to learn how to properly use a handgun, then after the 10 days is up they not only have the gun, but they know how to use it, and it may have given the psyco intending to do the harm time to cool off.

the other part of the waiting period is the gun shop doing a criminal search on the person trying to buy a gun. so if the guy is a nut job, or a criminal then the 10 day wait gives the shop owner time to find out and deny him the sale of the firearm.

it's one of the only parts of gun controll i can even remotely agree with.

other than that i'd say gun controll should be limited to the definition "using both hands to fire the gun"

#45
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QUOTE (rightwingguy @ Feb 27 2007, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WRONG!

The waiting after you buy a gun is just ridiculously stupid. I can't even tell you the number of stories i have read, where people rush to buy a gun because of a sudden threat that has entered their lives (violent husband, stalker, etc.) and because of the wait that is issued when buying a gun, many of these people fell victim to the peson they were defending themselves from, before they recieved their firearm.


What wait are your people even talking about. Just about a month or two ago I bought a muzzle loader right over the counter carried it out the door and into the car I went.

Also if you need a gun that badly or something just call the cops...

#46
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (teh_raperer @ Feb 27 2007, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What wait are your people even talking about. Just about a month or two ago I bought a muzzle loader right over the counter carried it out the door and into the car I went.


black powder rifles are different. they aren't normaly used to commit crimes ("stay there whiel i reload this thing...don't run away or beat me up whiel i do it either"). you can't buy anything semi-automatic without that 10 day wait.

#47
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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Feb 27 2007, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
black powder rifles are different. they aren't normaly used to commit crimes ("stay there whiel i reload this thing...don't run away or beat me up whiel i do it either"). you can't buy anything semi-automatic without that 10 day wait.


lol I didn't think of it that way, just basically any other gun can be easily obtained I guess, besides semi autos. Come to think of it I never even notice that many semi auto weapons in gun shops. The only time I've seen them is in big retail places like Cabelas or Gander Mountain... But still the problem with needing a gun fast could easily taken care of by a shotgun . I still think the best idea would to just call the cops though.

#48
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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Feb 27 2007, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
black powder rifles are different. they aren't normaly used to commit crimes ("stay there whiel i reload this thing...don't run away or beat me up whiel i do it either"). you can't buy anything semi-automatic without that 10 day wait.


I would pay to see a gangbanger try to rob a convenient store with a muzzle loader...and get the shit beat out of him.
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#49
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QUOTE (Doctorworm32 @ Feb 27 2007, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would pay to see a gangbanger try to rob a convenient store with a muzzle loader...and get the shit beat out of him.


Hey all you need is one shot anyway. The rest of the time you can just use the loader to beat the shit out of people if need be.

#50
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QUOTE (teh_raperer @ Feb 27 2007, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey all you need is one shot anyway. The rest of the time you can just use the loader to beat the shit out of people if need be.


You've seen how they shoot!
They could empty a full clip of their "glock fotay" and hit one person.

In all serious though, it'd be funny shit when the muslim guy at 7-11 kicks the crap out of some thug bitch.
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#51
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QUOTE (teh_raperer @ Feb 27 2007, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey all you need is one shot anyway. The rest of the time you can just use the loader to beat the shit out of people if need be.

they are awefully heavy...

edited to add usefulness to my post...

I like the idea of having to work your way up to more powerful weapons. Similar to the way rocket engines for model rockets work, you need to go through a lot of tests before you can buy the big ass engines (wewt sound barrier breakage). I just think it's a good idea for someone to know how to use a weapon when they buy it. I'm kinda partial on this though... just an interesting thought to me.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying like years of training, I'm thinkin like maybe a short course that teaches you about the new class of weapon, as well as tests your ability to at least hit a target/control the weapon...
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#52
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I think the problem with gun control is that a few things have changed since the 2nd amendment was written and ever since then it's had to be interpreted to apply to today's society, namely the fact that the U.S. now has a standing army (which I'm told started sometime after Eisenhower). At any rate, at sometime before that we had militias, which were normal citizens that mobilized in times of war. Normal people needed the right to bear arms so they could be mobilized quickly in time of war. Besides, all guns at the time could be used for hunting (there were no semi-autos, etc.). A gun was a gun. You could hunt with it, you could fight invaders with it.

Now we have a standing army. Big change. All the sudden there's a body of people with access to guns that are directly (to some extent) under the control of the government. Now it becomes a question of: If the government has an army, with guns, the rest of us better damn well be able to have them too just in case the govt. decides to use it's army against us.

Then come automatic weapons. The army has access to them, the rest of us don't...should we? I don't know. I say yes, 'cause I think they're cool, and yes, if a govt. army or (faction within) tried to force my state/city into obedience, I'd have more of a fighting chance. Should we be able to buy rocket launchers, machineguns, grenades, etc? Well, that sounds a little ludicrous, but still, the army has them, right?

These, I think, are the main issues when it comes to gun control. Criminal violence and the right to defend yourself are more a by-product of this discussion than the heart of the issue.

As for me, yeah, I'm against gun-control mainly for the 'keep govt. in check' idea and the fact that I, as a law-abiding citizen, shouldn't be victim to an un-law-abiding criminal who has (illegal) access to guns...It's a sticky subject, though, especially in the advances in weaponry since the 2nd amendment was written.

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#53
Michelle Kenobi

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QUOTE (rightwingguy @ Feb 27 2007, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WRONG!

The waiting after you buy a gun is just ridiculously stupid. I can't even tell you the number of stories i have read, where people rush to buy a gun because of a sudden threat that has entered their lives (violent husband, stalker, etc.) and because of the wait that is issued when buying a gun, many of these people fell victim to the peson they were defending themselves from, before they recieved their firearm.


They should have gone to the police or stayed with someone if it was that severe. The reason this law was put in place is because of the opposite reason. People get in the heat of rage, go buy a gun and kill someone. It was because this really happened that the rule was put in place.

The Importance of the Waiting Period for Background Checks and as a "Cooling-Off" Period

On January 14, 1999, a woman with a history of mental illness walked into a Salt Lake City, Utah office building and began firing a 9mm semi-automatic handgun. She killed one person and wounded another. The disturbed woman had never owned a gun but was able to pass a background check and purchase a gun and use it two hours later to kill. The previous year, the woman had been committed to a mental institution by a judge, thereby making her a prohibited purchaser. However, most states do not make such mental health records accessible for the purposes of a background check, so she was able to buy a gun.

A waiting period might have altered her state of mind, alerted her family to her dangerous intentions, and/or permitted local police to determine that her mental health status would have precluded her purchase of a gun. Without the "cooling-off" period, individuals contemplating suicide have easier access to firearms when they are most vulnerable, angry family members have the immediate opportunity to buy a gun before their tempers have cooled, and the mentally-ill who have violent intentions have legally acquired firearms without a thorough background check.

In April 1999, the Citrus County (Florida) Commission passed an ordinance requiring that firearm dealers wait three days before allowing a purchaser to gain possession of any firearm. Current state law in Florida requires a 72-hour wait only for handguns. In February 2001, Troy Truax attempted to purchase a shotgun from Manchester's Pawn and Gun in Citrus County, but left when told he would have to wait three days before being able to take possession of the gun. Truax then tried the A-OK Pawn & Gold pawnshop in the same county, whose owner was either unaware of or ignored the county ordinance. Truax walked out of the store with a shotgun and drove to his home, where he shot and killed his former girlfriend and himself. The gun seller was eventually charged for not observing the waiting period.

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#54
Wolf the Widowmaker

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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Feb 24 2007, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
no we are not.

your point is well taken, but then again if the neighborhood kids find out you don't have rocks to throw back, or that you throw like a girl...they'll probably be more inclined to throw rocks at you.

my advice...find rocks and learn to throw them.
thats my whole point...glad we agree

But then again, there are kids that throw rocks at you simply because you are in possession of rocks yourself *cough*World Police *cough*

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#55
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Guns arenít the solution for self-defense, but they can be part of it. It is bad outlook to think that just having (or using) a gun protects you, but it is a set of attitudes and actions that will. For example, you know itís not a good idea to walk down dark alleys, having a gun doesnít change that. And even if you do find yourself getting mugged, $27.42, a driverís license, and credit cards are not worth dying or killing over, but if the situation escalates towards rape or murder, then I would condone doing what ever it takes to stop the attack. ďbut you can fight (hand to hand) or you can runĒ but what if I had a broken leg? My fighting abilities are diminished and I certainly cannot run anymore. Or to make this even more dramatic, what if it was your pregnant wife being attacked (and you were not around for what ever reason)? I agree, guns give power to the user, but power can be used for good (self defense) or evil (attack).

And guns should be used only to make the situation even. If someone pulls a knife on a health 20-something male in a situation he can escape, then the gun should stay in itís holster. But if the scenario degrades, Iím cornered, Iím not as young as I once thought, or heís showing intent to kill, then lethal force becomes an option (assuming most options have been cut off).

Itís my opinion that CCWís (Concealed Carry Weapons) can act as a deterrent. If I took six men, gave three of them guns to carry out in the open, who would you attack? Youíd probably attack the men without guns. Now letís say the men with guns are now carrying concealed, so now you know that three have guns but you canít tell who. Would you attack if there was a possibility that the one you choose pulled a gun on you? Would you take the risk for $27.42 and a few credit cards that will be canceled by the end of the week?

Granted, these are some extreme situations, and of all the people I know who conceal carry, none of them have admitted to having to actually use their gun. I would hope that I would never have to draw a gun, but that does not mean that we should not prepare for the worst case scenario.
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#56
TheBlackOut

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Why don't we just give everyone guns? Then we're all on a even playing field.... icon_razz.gif


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#57
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (Wolf the Widowmaker @ Feb 28 2007, 04:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But then again, there are kids that throw rocks at you simply because you are in possession of rocks yourself *cough*World Police *cough*


thats why we have bigger rocks, and more of them. hopefully nobodys stupid enough to start throwing rocks.

#58
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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Mar 3 2007, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thats why we have bigger rocks, and more of them. hopefully nobodys stupid enough to start throwing rocks.

People throw rocks everyday.
Which is exactly my point.
Anything could be used as a weapon - so guns aren't the matter, it's violence in general that is.

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#59
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (ya_ba @ Mar 3 2007, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
People throw rocks everyday.
Which is exactly my point.
Anything could be used as a weapon - so guns aren't the matter, it's violence in general that is.


i was talking about nukes...but yeah...violence is the problem.

#60
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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Mar 3 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i was talking about nukes...but yeah...violence is the problem.

Hmm.
I'm sorry.
When I think of it, the Cold War wasn't so bad.
Not a violent war, it made a huge technological impact - and basically, it helped a lot.
But yeah, still a war nonetheless.
I don't really know why I put it in here, but it just jumped to my mind.

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