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Abortion


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#21
Sikotik

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QUOTE (Contrallion @ Jan 25 2007, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it's not like adoption is a cure-all for everything- the kid still has a high chance of having problems later on. There's also the jeopardy of getting decent parents to adopt the child- I've seen good and bad cases of both.

For instance, I have parents that won't tell me who my real parents are. I'm pretty sure thats illegal in some way.
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QUOTE
so you think because a child has a "high chance of having problems", we should simply put them out of their misery?


Would you kill Hitler as a fetus if you had the chance?
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QUOTE (Gillz @ Jan 26 2008, 06:29 PM) View Post
Last time I checked, you didn't have the right to tell me what to do?

#22
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QUOTE (hackerwacker @ Jan 25 2007, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so you think because a child has a "high chance of having problems", we should simply put them out of their misery? not even let them experience life?

I'm saying that effort should be made to support the mother's life and not potentially destroy it instead.

#23
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QUOTE (Contrallion @ Jan 25 2007, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm saying that effort should be made to support the mother's life and not potentially destroy it instead.

Well I guess I'm a bit more old fashioned when it comes to things like this. People need to deal with the consequences of their actions, instead of whining and finding the easy way out.

Pregnancy is one of the consequence of frivolous sex.

QUOTE
Would you kill Hitler as a fetus if you had the chance?

that dosnt even dignify a rebuttal..

#24
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QUOTE (hackerwacker @ Jan 25 2007, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well I guess I'm a bit more old fashioned when it comes to things like this. People need to deal with the consequences of their actions, instead of whining and finding the easy way out.

Pregnancy is one of the consequence of frivolous sex.

But if it was safe sex? Condoms are only good for 99% of the time.

Dude.
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#25
Contrallion

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Yeah- birth control doesn't work all the time, and condoms can fail like ya_ba said. Accidents can happen, and the victims of such occurances aren't necessarily dirty whores.

Even if the guy and girl were careless, I just don't see the point in punishing someone for such a minor thing. It's not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank by accidently getting the girl pregnant- forcing someone to have the child is creating a huge punishment for a small error. Frivolous sex isn't a crime..

Also, calling abortion the "easy way out" is a horrible generalization. It isn't a walk in the park, and can cause significant damage to the mother. Whether the woman has the kid or not, she's screwed.

#26
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QUOTE (Contrallion @ Jan 25 2007, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah- birth control doesn't work all the time, and condoms can fail like ya_ba said. Accidents can happen, and the victims of such occurances aren't necessarily dirty whores.

Even if the guy and girl were careless, I just don't see the point in punishing someone for such a minor thing. It's not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank by accidently getting the girl pregnant- forcing someone to have the child is creating a huge punishment for a small error. Frivolous sex isn't a crime..

Also, calling abortion the "easy way out" is a horrible generalization. It isn't a walk in the park, and can cause significant damage to the mother. Whether the woman has the kid or not, she's screwed.


Irony much?

And abortion is the easy way out in at least 8/10 of the cases. Right now the only justifiable things I have for abortion are the mother being in near imminent danger of dying during the pregnancy(at least she's already had a chance to live), rape, and possibly having sexual relations with someone you DIDNT KNOW had some sort of life altering STD like AIDS (not minor ones)... the rest of the time it's just because they don't want to have to deal with taking care of the child, they don't want to have the social implications of having a child, or they don't think they can support a family. quite frankly, I don't give a shit about these problems. You know why? BECAUSE YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX, protected or unprotected, pregnancy is a risk regardless, and when you have sex you accept that risk REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU USE PROTECTION.

as for them growing up having problems, so? everybody has problems. Yea it will be harder, but that doesn't mean they should die. Think of it this way, if I found out in 3 years your parents would die and you'd become traumatized and I shot you (note: you don't have a choice on whether or not you get to be shot) because it would save you pain, would you be very happy? most of these points are moreso things to make abortion seem less bad than things that are actually points for abortion being positive in any way... Like say I got my leg blown off. I could say, "hey, at least I'm still alive," does that mean I'm happy? FUCK NO. It's just a way of making my lack of leg less bad.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#27
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I think that the western culture I live in is a very "feel good" society, we EXPECT EVERYTHING to ... feel good. And we also expect everything to be convenient and instant. Abortion, to me, is just a quick fix; a "convenient" solution of people refusing to take responsibility for their actions.

It is my opinion that it's not up for us to take the lives of others. I am very "pro-life", but I feel... that this extends far beyond just abortion. I'm very anti abortion, anti capitol punishment, anti war, and anti euthanasia. I believe that millions die of hunger as a direct result of our economics here. And ALL of that death, in addition to abortion... just doesn't sit well with me.
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#28
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I am against abortion tbh.
I can't get around the fact that your killing a human life.

Now to add something from me as a Christian.

I believe that that human life i was talking about was a gift from God, i believe he creates life and that it is truly inhuman and disrespectfull against that one that gave all of us life. That last bit was an understatement from my side but, its late and can't think of another way to describe it.
Even when a 11 year old girl gets raped and gets pregnant there is no excuse to do that. IMO that is.

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#29
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ok thats it, i can't take it anymore.

ABORTION IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE METHOD OF CONTRACEPTION.

thats all i'm saying....

now i'm gonna go back to biting my tounce on this one because i don't have a vagina.

#30
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And abortion is the easy way out in at least 8/10 of the cases. Right now the only justifiable things I have for abortion are the mother being in near imminent danger of dying during the pregnancy(at least she's already had a chance to live), rape, and possibly having sexual relations with someone you DIDNT KNOW had some sort of life altering STD like AIDS (not minor ones)... the rest of the time it's just because they don't want to have to deal with taking care of the child, they don't want to have the social implications of having a child, or they don't think they can support a family. quite frankly, I don't give a shit about these problems. You know why? BECAUSE YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX, protected or unprotected, pregnancy is a risk regardless, and when you have sex you accept that risk REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU USE PROTECTION.

as for them growing up having problems, so? everybody has problems. Yea it will be harder, but that doesn't mean they should die. Think of it this way, if I found out in 3 years your parents would die and you'd become traumatized and I shot you (note: you don't have a choice on whether or not you get to be shot) because it would save you pain, would you be very happy? most of these points are moreso things to make abortion seem less bad than things that are actually points for abortion being positive in any way... Like say I got my leg blown off. I could say, "hey, at least I'm still alive," does that mean I'm happy? FUCK NO. It's just a way of making my lack of leg less bad.

Well my first point (about the killing thing) was that making a mistake while having sex isn't that big of a crime. I agree with the argument that abortion shouldn't be used as a form of contraception - people shouldn't be just relying on using that as a backup plan.

I think the main point you were trying to make in your first paragraph (correct me if I'm wrong) was that making the choice to have sex, protected or unprotected, is automatic grounds for punishment if anything goes wrong. This means that even if you used birth control, condoms, etc. and pregnancy still occurred, you should have the baby.

It's impossible to stop people from having sex, which is why abstinence education is a load of shit. It's human nature to want to have sex during the teens (significant in that it's before marriage), and even the most Christian girls are going to want to fuck around. I mean, who here doesn't know a "god-loving" girl that has broken away and slowly gone towards promiscuity?

I know this is a side track, but the other argument (involving the lives of "mistake" kids) isn't worth arguing since it's more opinion and too many examples can prove either case.

#31
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Well, I support it for two reasons:

1: Our world population is way too big.

2: I don't give a fuck about a few blastosis cells.

However, I think that abortion clinics should be illegal, and instead the woman who got herself pregnant from promiscuity will be issued one spoon and one stick to bite on, as well as 5 minutes in a South Central bathroom stall.

Oh, and I had to mention this: The Regressive Party


#32
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QUOTE (hackerwacker @ Jan 25 2007, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that dosnt even dignify a rebuttal..

Au Contraire. Do you not rebute because you're afraid of the answer? One way, you prove yourself wrong. The other way, you support a nearly pure-evil man who slaughtered 6 million people. Answer the damn question. Ignoring something because you don't like the answer makes you look like a damn fool.

QUOTE
Even when a 11 year old girl gets raped and gets pregnant there is no excuse to do that. IMO that is.
At 11 years old, the girl would die giving birth. A woman's hips are not fully developed to deliver a child until at least 16, safely. There's a massive chance of death until about 16. Would you prefer an unborn fetus die, or an innocent 11 year old girl die?

QUOTE
I can't get around the fact that your killing a human life.

A fetus cannot even be distinguished as a human until the latter part of the second trimester.


To cap it off, how many of you celebrate your conceptionday instead of your birthday? Read my posts in the first page, then you can reply again.
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QUOTE (Gillz @ Jan 26 2008, 06:29 PM) View Post
Last time I checked, you didn't have the right to tell me what to do?

#33
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Your Hitler argument was just to show how ridiculous the "what if the baby cured cancer one day"- it's just as stupid as the thing you're making fun of. I don't think it really needs a rebuttal- it's just a rhetorical question.

#34
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QUOTE (Contrallion @ Jan 25 2007, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your Hitler argument was just to show how ridiculous the "what if the baby cured cancer one day"- it's just as stupid as the thing you're making fun of. I don't think it really needs a rebuttal- it's just a rhetorical question.

True, but to quote it and state that it's not worth dignifying aresponse just makes you look like a fool.
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QUOTE (Gillz @ Jan 26 2008, 06:29 PM) View Post
Last time I checked, you didn't have the right to tell me what to do?

#35
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QUOTE
Au Contraire. Do you not rebute because you're afraid of the answer? One way, you prove yourself wrong. The other way, you support a nearly pure-evil man who slaughtered 6 million people. Answer the damn question. Ignoring something because you don't like the answer makes you look like a damn fool.
it doesn't dignify a response because of it's absurdity... let me give an example of another absurd question... would you rather cut off your penis, or cut out your vagina?
QUOTE
At 11 years old, the girl would die giving birth. A woman's hips are not fully developed to deliver a child until at least 16, safely. There's a massive chance of death until about 16. Would you prefer an unborn fetus die, or an innocent 11 year old girl die?

most people don't mind abortion when the woman is raped... if an 11 year old girl has sex willingly, then she should have the baby and the dr.s not be allowed to help HER in any way, just deliver the baby... that'll teach her...
QUOTE
A fetus cannot even be distinguished as a human until the latter part of the second trimester.
To cap it off, how many of you celebrate your conceptionday instead of your birthday? Read my posts in the first page, then you can reply again.
so a fetus is alive now because it looks human? or is it alive when it moves for the first time? or when it's heart beats for the first time? or when it first develops cells that are designed for a distinct purpose? or when it first starts replicating DNA? or when the final DNA of the child is completed upon conception? I mean technically it is a unique life form at that point.

QUOTE
I think the main point you were trying to make in your first paragraph (correct me if I'm wrong) was that making the choice to have sex, protected or unprotected, is automatic grounds for punishment if anything goes wrong. This means that even if you used birth control, condoms, etc. and pregnancy still occurred, you should have the baby.


I would by no means ever call it punishment. Having a child isn't a "punishment" it's a responsibility. By having sex you accept the risk that you may potentially have a child. I know a couple people that have had children very young (18 or less) and I don't know any of them that love their children any less, or treat them any worse. In fact, most of the women I've met actually are significantly more loving of their children than some other families.

QUOTE
It's impossible to stop people from having sex, which is why abstinence education is a load of shit. It's human nature to want to have sex during the teens (significant in that it's before marriage), and even the most Christian girls are going to want to fuck around. I mean, who here doesn't know a "god-loving" girl that has broken away and slowly gone towards promiscuity?


oh, so then the 1900+ years where many people didn't have sex till they were married obviously don't count? I by no means support straight up abstinence, but sex is not a game. It is very much a responsibility, and it should be treated as such.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#36
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh, so then the 1900+ years where many people didn't have sex till they were married obviously don't count? I by no means support straight up abstinence, but sex is not a game. It is very much a responsibility, and it should be treated as such.


Because promiscuity wasn't a problem in the past 1900 years.... Oh wait, who was it Elizabeth I slept with? What was that about beastiality and adultery in the Massachussets Bay Colony?


#37
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it doesn't dignify a response because of it's absurdity... let me give an example of another absurd question... would you rather cut off your penis, or cut out your vagina?

And the absurdity of "the kid could cure cancer" is just as bad. Cancer has been around for a while, and the chances of the one kid out of 6 billion going on to cure cancer, happens to be in the position to be aborted for whatever reason, are extremely slim.

QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
most people don't mind abortion when the woman is raped... if an 11 year old girl has sex willingly, then she should have the baby and the dr.s not be allowed to help HER in any way, just deliver the baby... that'll teach her...

First off, read the post I was responding to. The person said "if the 11 year old girl was raped I wouldn't care" RAPED. Also, it'd kill the 11 year old girl. Saying, "that'll teach her", is just horrible. Shame on you

QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so a fetus is alive now because it looks human? or is it alive when it moves for the first time? or when it's heart beats for the first time? or when it first develops cells that are designed for a distinct purpose? or when it first starts replicating DNA? or when the final DNA of the child is completed upon conception? I mean technically it is a unique life form at that point.

A unique life form, maybe. But it still hasn't experienced life. A unique life form could be anything. Do you eat plants? They're unique life forms. How about meat? They were unique life forms at one point in time. Nothing in nature is exactly the same. Junk DNA is always the differentiator between even simmilar codes. You can stop eating now, because you're killing unique life forms when you do so.

QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 25 2007, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh, so then the 1900+ years where many people didn't have sex till they were married obviously don't count? I by no means support straight up abstinence, but sex is not a game. It is very much a responsibility, and it should be treated as such.

Its not that it didn't happen - it's that it wasn't as common. Also, promiscuity can exist beyond marriage as well. Imagine all the people that cheated on their significant other post-marriage. Just because it wasn't accepted (yes, promiscuity is basically accepted in our society these days - theres no refuting that) doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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QUOTE (Gillz @ Jan 26 2008, 06:29 PM) View Post
Last time I checked, you didn't have the right to tell me what to do?

#38
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QUOTE (Pawnator @ Jan 26 2007, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because promiscuity wasn't a problem in the past 1900 years.... Oh wait, who was it Elizabeth I slept with? What was that about beastiality and adultery in the Massachussets Bay Colony?


what's that? 2 examples so far over 1900 compared to the 100+ million in america TODAY that are sexually promiscuous? you really can't argue that just because 5% of the population over the last 1900 years makes it right that 70% of today's population is so promiscuous...
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#39
Sikotik

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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Jan 26 2007, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what's that? 2 examples so far over 1900 compared to the 100+ million in america TODAY that are sexually promiscuous? you really can't argue that just because 5% of the population over the last 1900 years makes it right that 70% of today's population is so promiscuous...

Did you read my post at all? Have you ever read The Scarlett Letter? Promiscuity has been around for a long time, but it's flagged around by everyone these days. It was a shame then, now its publicity. Look at all the whores (Brit Spears, Jess Simpson, etc.) that are basically only noticed now because they fuck everyone.
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QUOTE (Gillz @ Jan 26 2008, 06:29 PM) View Post
Last time I checked, you didn't have the right to tell me what to do?

#40
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Yeah-to think that promiscuity has risen and is only high in recently years is incredibly wrong. I'd like to see where you got that information.




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