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#421
The_Zooloo_Master

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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 4 2007, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a quick question for some of you....Was your religion forced on you as a child by your parents and friends or did you research and discover what you really want to believe in?

Christianity as such was not forced upon me as a child, but one can argue that most of the philosophical and ethical beliefs, the doctrine that came with it were installed into me. Sometimes I wish that I "was shown the light" as it were, because making the leap of faith is something difficult to do, but at the moment I am comfortable with my views, and especially grateful for not having been brain washed. The only negative aspect I can see in forcing a religion on somebody is that it can close the world off for that person; we have everything we need to see rational truths and the utmost wisdom of our time, but in my opinion orthodoxy holds people back from that.
"If I continue with this shit I'm going to end up in jail, in a hospital, or dead. Or all 3." -- Joby

#422
fykusfire

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QUOTE (The_Zooloo_Master @ Apr 10 2007, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Christianity as such was not forced upon me as a child, but one can argue that most of the philosophical and ethical beliefs, the doctrine that came with it were installed into me. Sometimes I wish that I "was shown the light" as it were, because making the leap of faith is something difficult to do, but at the moment I am comfortable with my views, and especially grateful for not having been brain washed. The only negative aspect I can see in forcing a religion on somebody is that it can close the world off for that person; we have everything we need to see rational truths and the utmost wisdom of our time, but in my opinion orthodoxy holds people back from that.

Good post.

#423
DarkKitchen

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QUOTE (fykusfire @ Apr 9 2007, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am going to quote Josh Foreman on this one (artist on the game Guild Wars):

Thats just ridiculous, what right would someone have to control when and if we die. So basically you all worship someone that imprisions you and kills you when he wishes and then tells you to be righteous and pure. What about all the people that were killed in the ww2 holocaust? God did all that for a reason so Hitler was gods messenger? God made us make nukes and use them on Japan? If he is almighty powerful he would of been able to stop them right away. But we decided to go on our own without god and he doesn't control us right? Then why does he kill us when he wants and why didn't he kill Hitler...o yea because hes not there and if there is a god he doesn't care about you and me and he causes nothing on this planet to happen. I don't need physical evidence because there are enough disrepencies in the bible and the other religous books and all around us.

#424
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 4 2007, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a quick question for some of you....Was your religion forced on you as a child by your parents and friends or did you research and discover what you really want to believe in?


My parents are Catholic. We have never discussed it, but I believe that both of my parents felt very uncomfortable with the rigid lifestyles they were both raised in, especially my father. So as I was growing up, my family never went to church except for the baptism thing when I was a child, and at weddings. When I was 3-4 years old I was taken to a protestant chapel and learned about the bible there, but of course I don't remember too much about that except for a couple of the stories they taught me. I was told at home about the life of Christ and about the stories in the bible and I began to read it a little bit myself. Over time living in a Christian society I learned all of the basic cultural biblical references as well. I was in no way forced to believe in Christianity and was probably raised in the most lax environment possible in a Christian family, indoctrination-wise.
When I was about nine years old, I began to elaborate and expand on the knowledge I was given of religion. Right now, I see a few things as being more important in this development than others.
First of all, I think that every Christian should ask them an important question. If there was no heaven, if god did not exist and if Jesus was just a mortal man, would you still follow him? For me, the answer was yes, and it made me realize what is important in a religion: The ideal, not the idol. I do believe in the divinity of Jesus, though as for the Old Testament I see it more as a strategic information tool and something cryptic and hard to pull good meaning from, but I still think there is a lot of truth in it. I believe in an afterlife, something that may be like heaven, may not be. I don't think there is a hell, though. Maybe there is some sort of purgatory, or maybe everyone has another adventure waiting for them, which would be just fine with me.

I think that religion is something to be taught as a base, but it must be risen from and not used as a crutch. Religion is a base by which one establishes belief; it is a starting point, but not the absolute end. The absolute end is when one finds truth in their own way; by truth, do I mean god? Do I mean harmony? Do I mean nothing? That is the question which the truth can answer, and for everyone that answer will be different but just as beautiful.

I believe that there are many paths one can take in life. I believe that atheists, Muslims, Christians, or whatever you may be, we are all impartially loved by god. We are not judged by god, the same way that a cup of water spills but is not judged by the distance the water has to fall. I do not believe in karma, karma is a judging abstraction. One flaw in many religions is the need for judgment. People seem to require judgment to live their lives well. They need consequences, punishment, and a downside. But I think the best way to live life is to experience it, and live it the best way you can, just because you do and for no reason else.

I do not believe that some people are given salvation while some are damned. Perhaps, some become lost, and maybe the soul itself can be extinguished, snuffed out, by one's own losing of it. But not because it was taken from them or they gave it away, but because they lost it amidst themselves. Don't do things right, or wrong. Just do what is best, which will end up being right.

That is not to say that there are evil things. But I think that evil is badly defined. Evil as I see it is about as evil as a chemical reaction. But never mind that for now.

I think that everyone knows of God, and that some people can extinguish this knowledge. But not atheists. Atheists have as much faith as you or I do. Faith in the world, faith in the now and in themselves, and that is what loving God can be. Those who extinguish God from themselves extinguish existence, they deny. They deny for reasons that run in loops, inexplicable and unrationable. Like a gear broken loose, not being turned or turning, just spinning in circles touching nothing. This spreads, and we call it evil. Maybe that is the right word; it sure can be if you want. Etymology is more important than you think, if the definition is solid. But there is never a point where a person cannot be brought back. Saying one is in this state is folly, a way to define something as solid and unchanging for efficiency's sake and no other reason.

My words are hard to orient properly, but I did what I could. I hope that helps.


#425
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 10 2007, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thats just ridiculous, what right would someone have to control when and if we die. So basically you all worship someone that imprisions you and kills you when he wishes and then tells you to be righteous and pure. What about all the people that were killed in the ww2 holocaust? God did all that for a reason so Hitler was gods messenger? God made us make nukes and use them on Japan? If he is almighty powerful he would of been able to stop them right away. But we decided to go on our own without god and he doesn't control us right? Then why does he kill us when he wants and why didn't he kill Hitler...o yea because hes not there and if there is a god he doesn't care about you and me and he causes nothing on this planet to happen. I don't need physical evidence because there are enough disrepencies in the bible and the other religous books and all around us.

you need to reread what he said and stop being such a pessimist...

in other news... nice post pawnator...
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#426
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 10 2007, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1)Thats just ridiculous, what right would someone have to control when and if we die.

2) So basically you all worship someone that imprisions you and kills you when he wishes and then tells you to be righteous and pure.

3) What about all the people that were killed in the ww2 holocaust?

4) God did all that for a reason so Hitler was gods messenger?

5)God made us make nukes and use them on Japan? If he is almighty powerful he would of been able to stop them right away.

6) But we decided to go on our own without god and he doesn't control us right?

7) Then why does he kill us when he wants and why didn't he kill Hitler...

8.) o yea because hes not there and if there is a god he doesn't care about you and me and he causes nothing on this planet to happen.

9) I don't need physical evidence because there are enough disrepencies in the bible and the other religous books and all around us.


1) someone wouldn't.

2) Uh, I don't know about you, but I don't.

3) They died.

4) Free will

5) Free will

6) Free will

7) Free will.

8.) Your logic is impeccable.

9) That doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't the descrepencies serve as evidence for the arguement you were using? Anyway, how do the descrepencies in the religious texts nullify the religion?


#427
DarkKitchen

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QUOTE (Pawnator @ Apr 10 2007, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1) someone wouldn't.

2) Uh, I don't know about you, but I don't.

3) They died.

4) Free will

5) Free will

6) Free will

7) Free will.

8.) Your logic is impeccable.

9) That doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't the descrepencies serve as evidence for the arguement you were using? Anyway, how do the descrepencies in the religious texts nullify the religion?

You have to read back on all my posts and everyone elses to understand. Someone said that god causes deaths to happen but then why would he let people like hitler live if he could kill us when he wills. Then someone will say because there is a reason. Well if there is a reason for that then your god is messed up.

I have a cousin that has severe Cerebral Palsy and someone told me god has a reason for that I flipped out. Someone on the news said god killed her son in a car crash for a reason. I see murderers and rapists pray to god to let them out or help them and rappers rhyme about god in one verse then murdering people in another. In america priests act all crazy on tv and look like total fools to get money. Also here in america priest go around raping children then get off 100% because they say they will put there faith in god to help them stop. Then people say im narrowminded and small viewed for being aithiest. Im not saying that the world would be a better place if everyone was aithiest but all religions need to stop holding on to centurys old beliefs and make some changes for the new world.

#428
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 11 2007, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have to read back on all my posts and everyone elses to understand. Someone said that god causes deaths to happen but then why would he let people like hitler live if he could kill us when he wills. Then someone will say because there is a reason. Well if there is a reason for that then your god is messed up.

I have a cousin that has severe Cerebral Palsy and someone told me god has a reason for that I flipped out. Someone on the news said god killed her son in a car crash for a reason. I see murderers and rapists pray to god to let them out or help them and rappers rhyme about god in one verse then murdering people in another. In america priests act all crazy on tv and look like total fools to get money. Also here in america priest go around raping children then get off 100% because they say they will put there faith in god to help them stop. Then people say im narrowminded and small viewed for being aithiest. Im not saying that the world would be a better place if everyone was aithiest but all religions need to stop holding on to centurys old beliefs and make some changes for the new world.

It is funny to see you seek to nullify the infinite wisdom of your creator with this. Here is an alternate explanation:
QUOTE ("The Iargans")
"The question as to whether the people on a harmonious planet are really so much happier seems to be irrelevant because there is a natural compensation mechanism. A person IS what he has done and experienced. In the Resurrection he IS the knowledge and experience of the past life. He then lives out of his old world of experience and goes through the happiness of the completion FROM his old situation. A blind person will experience an amazing 'charge' of happiness through the fact that he can see; a heavily handicapped person through the fact that he enjoys a fantastic freedom of movement, and a slave because he is free and equal with everyone else. It is true that the reward is the same for everyone, but each one expenences it in his own way.
Then it begins to seem that a person who has known much happiness and prosperity has, in fact, had bad luck, for this extra experience of happiness is eternal.
No, there is simply a complete compensation for all suffering and misery, accurately apportioned, following a natural mechanism and no more than that. In the course of time this extra experience of happiness through the process of unification will disappear into an even greater consciousness, or at least, will no longer be recognizable. The conclusion is that ultimately it seems that no one has had either good or bad luck.
This compensation mechanism makes it possible, on every planet with the potential for it, to let life exist, in spite of the misery which can come from it. Therefore the divine guidance of particular intelligent races is exclusively geared to the driving out of the malicious exponent of dualism. The natural result is the considerable reduction of suffering, but it is not the objective. God does not hinder suffering and sometimes He even inflicts it. In the Bible it says: He that I love, him do I punish and chastise. Suffering and happiness are still, for the moment, absolute opposites, the one does not exist without the other - but also the one not more than the other.
Here again it follows that on planets where the suffering is considerably less -the experience of happiness is also, on average, proportionally less. Life knows fewer low points but also fewer peaks. There the danger of monotony and lethargy arise - dynamism can be absent through the lack of challenge. If the challenge from planetary conditions is missing, then the Spirit of God has, through a real Intervention, built in the trigger for a particular - handicap in advance - consider the trigger in the earth's mechanism which will cause a shift of the poles. Although the latter is not a challenge but serves another purpose, the principle of external Intervention in advance is the same."


#429
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 11 2007, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have to read back on all my posts and everyone elses to understand. Someone said that god causes deaths to happen but then why would he let people like hitler live if he could kill us when he wills. Then someone will say because there is a reason. Well if there is a reason for that then your god is messed up.

I have a cousin that has severe Cerebral Palsy and someone told me god has a reason for that I flipped out. Someone on the news said god killed her son in a car crash for a reason. I see murderers and rapists pray to god to let them out or help them and rappers rhyme about god in one verse then murdering people in another. In america priests act all crazy on tv and look like total fools to get money. Also here in america priest go around raping children then get off 100% because they say they will put there faith in god to help them stop. Then people say im narrowminded and small viewed for being aithiest. Im not saying that the world would be a better place if everyone was aithiest but all religions need to stop holding on to centurys old beliefs and make some changes for the new world.

dude, your incredibly selfish with your views on god. Just because he's not directly helping you doesn't mean it's not helping. You obviously didn't understand that guys post at all, he even pointed out why hitler was a little bit good. He effectively allowed a majority of the world to come together for no other reason than to overcome evil, he pulled our country out of a deep depression, effectively saving our economy and making us the number one spot on world economies since.

For the tsunami's, they pretty much got the whole world to band together just to help their fellow man. For your cousin, maybe someday they will end up changing our touching the lives of hundreds of people, that might not have been necessary had they not had cerebral palsy. For the kid in the car accident, it's very possible that God felt it was just his time. Maybe the person that hit her and killed her son had a major epiphone and is now one of the biggest anti-drunk driving activists.

For rappers, rapists, and murderers, just because you pray doesn't mean God will answer. And those priests you see on TV usually aren't priests, they're pastors most of the time, and I believe that they are probably going to hell for using the faith to be greedy.

I know you said people always say you're close minded, but you are really close minded. If it isn't directly helping you or anyone else, you think it's bad. The fact of the matter is, that's not the way the world works. For every action there are hundreds of thousands of after effects. These after effects have a further reaching and sometimes stronger effect than the action itself.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#430
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The area of religion I despise the most is the teaching of it to children. It's taking advantage of them plain and simple.

#431
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QUOTE (Punty @ Apr 11 2007, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The area of religion I despise the most is the teaching of it to children. It's taking advantage of them plain and simple.

I haven't seen anybody in here feel that their religion was forced on them, in fact quite the opposite. That question was actually posed earlier, and the people who were raised in religion actually said they didn't feel it was ever forced on them...
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#432
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Apr 11 2007, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't seen anybody in here feel that their religion was forced on them


I didn't say I was talking about anyone here tho

#433
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QUOTE (Punty @ Apr 11 2007, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't say I was talking about anyone here tho

well I haven't heard it much anywhere else either...
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#434
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Apr 11 2007, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dude, your incredibly selfish with your views on god. Just because he's not directly helping you doesn't mean it's not helping. You obviously didn't understand that guys post at all, he even pointed out why hitler was a little bit good. He effectively allowed a majority of the world to come together for no other reason than to overcome evil, he pulled our country out of a deep depression, effectively saving our economy and making us the number one spot on world economies since.

For the tsunami's, they pretty much got the whole world to band together just to help their fellow man. For your cousin, maybe someday they will end up changing our touching the lives of hundreds of people, that might not have been necessary had they not had cerebral palsy. For the kid in the car accident, it's very possible that God felt it was just his time. Maybe the person that hit her and killed her son had a major epiphone and is now one of the biggest anti-drunk driving activists.

For rappers, rapists, and murderers, just because you pray doesn't mean God will answer. And those priests you see on TV usually aren't priests, they're pastors most of the time, and I believe that they are probably going to hell for using the faith to be greedy.

I know you said people always say you're close minded, but you are really close minded. If it isn't directly helping you or anyone else, you think it's bad. The fact of the matter is, that's not the way the world works. For every action there are hundreds of thousands of after effects. These after effects have a further reaching and sometimes stronger effect than the action itself.

I am not selfish with my views I am not the one that sits there and prays all the time waiting and hoping for god to do something. I hear people all the time "yes god will help me GET MONEY" and worse that is selfish. If god doesn't effect us directly then why do I always here people praying for his help directly.

I am not close minded I have looked into taking up Christianity and Islam, I would love to believe in something mabey I would feel better. Christians tell me im wrong for looking into Islam because they think they are always right which I have seen more than once here so if anything im the most open minded here. Don't deny it untill you have been to southern america.

For some reason god favors americans over jews and africans so thats why he killed all them to take us out of a depression? How would you even know if god is causing these things...seriously thats just close minded o theres that again. If god does not help you and if he does not effect anything here why would you worship him and do what he says? To explain what we don't understand? Are you too scared to face reality on your own? You hope you are right and you get special treatment in the afterlife? Selfish actoins again by religion.

Lets not forget polygamy and how easly people are brain washed because they cannot do things for themselves. Also how christians think its ok to go have sex whenever and with whoever you want then expect to get help from us and god when they get aids or stds even though they knew nothing about the other person wasting money on something that can be stopped. Ofcourse there are other circumstances but thats for a different place and time.

#435
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 11 2007, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For some reason god favors americans over jews and africans so thats why he killed all them to take us out of a depression? How would you even know if god is causing these things...seriously thats just close minded o theres that again. If god does not help you and if he does not effect anything here why would you worship him and do what he says? To explain what we don't understand? Are you too scared to face reality on your own? You hope you are right and you get special treatment in the afterlife? Selfish actoins again by religion.

well.. if you believe in god, there's really no point not to worship him except for arrogance. the question should be more of a do you/don't you believe in god rather than a do you/don't you worship him. then there's always the fact that you might just do what he says because you agree with it.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#436
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In order for anyone to go to "hell," it would have to exist first. And outside of Greek mythology, "hell/hades" doesn't.

#437
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QUOTE (DarkKitchen @ Apr 11 2007, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lets not forget polygamy and how easly people are brain washed because they cannot do things for themselves. Also how christians think its ok to go have sex whenever and with whoever you want then expect to get help from us and god when they get aids or stds even though they knew nothing about the other person wasting money on something that can be stopped. Ofcourse there are other circumstances but thats for a different place and time.


Both me and ya_ba just looked through this paragraph like 3 times, and I think the only way to summarize it is:

???

#438
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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Apr 11 2007, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well I haven't heard it much anywhere else either...


In the whole world you've never heard of children being taught religious beliefs, having decisions made for them (i.e. sent to a faith school), being baptised/initiated into a belief system that they are too young to understand?

#439
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QUOTE (Hrugnir @ Apr 11 2007, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Both me and ya_ba just looked through this paragraph like 3 times, and I think the only way to summarize it is:

???

I second your WTF.

#440
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QUOTE (fykusfire @ Apr 11 2007, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I second your WTF.

Third, tbh. /Yael.




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