2248 replies to this topic

[way2lazy2care]

A lot of people don't believe it at first, they verify the data and results, and check theoretical work.

People keep an open mind, but we both know 90% of the people will believe it till they hear something contradictory.

Sorry it was a bit of a ramble. What I meant was you are so proud of the fact that you're christian, that you come across angry and hateful towards non believers. Aren't these deadly sins? Or do you just ignore these when on your quest to heavenship?

I'm not hateful. It just irks me when people are either intollerant of religion in general (not so much lately. People are generally tolerant compared to earlier in the thread where it was pretty much everyone saying religion is stupid) or when people wrongly tell me what I believe or why I believe it (generally ignorance). Especially in the case of major religions it is not that hard to do a quick google search and find out what they actually believe before saying something stupid.

[Garamiah]

there is no proof in your life experiences. You are assuming wrongly that there are no blatantly obvious and observable things in my life that indicated that there is a God.

If the scientests at the supercollider did an experiment and said something was true, I take it you'd believe them. You didn't see the experiment. You could not duplicate their results. You could not verify that their results were not fabricated. I take it you would not be quite so hard on them as you would be on a religious person.

There is a huge difference. Any significant results at the supercollider would be studied, criticised, peer reviewed and perhaps play part in the devleopment of new scientific theory, but only after a rigourous gauntlet of tests and repeated experimentation.
Personal experiences of 'God' cannot be reviewed or crticised, nor can it be repeated through tests. Furthermore, they occur only within the mind, which is susceptible to any number of psychological conditions that can delude the host.

Edited by Garamiah, 21 October 2010 - 08:35 AM.

[Rob`]

Especially in the case of major religions it is not that hard to do a quick google search and find out what they actually believe before saying something stupid.

To be fair a lot of Christians do believe a lot of different things.

I mean you can say you're a Christian but then are you Catholic, Protestant, Church Of England, Evangelical or what? Do you believe the Earth was created in 6 days 6000 years ago or do you believe that Genesis is a metaphor and Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years? Do you believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is sinful or that God really doesn't care? Do you believe Hell awaits everyone who doesn't accept Jesus into their heart or do you believe that the only requirement for Heaven is that you try to be good in life?

[way2lazy2care]

I mean you can say you're a Christian but then are you Catholic, Protestant, Church Of England, Evangelical or what? Do you believe the Earth was created in 6 days 6000 years ago or do you believe that Genesis is a metaphor and Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years? Do you believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is sinful or that God really doesn't care? Do you believe Hell awaits everyone who doesn't accept Jesus into their heart or do you believe that the only requirement for Heaven is that you try to be good in life?

I'm ok with it if there's a misunderstanding and your information is accurate on some level. My general complaint is that it isn't hard to learn about someone's religion in most cases (I will say satanism is more difficult) usually in great detail via the internet. there isn't much reason to be getting some of the more basic/universal things about a religion wrong.

I'm upset by ignorance, not misunderstandings.

There is a huge difference. Any significant results at the supercollider would be studied, criticised, peer reviewed and perhaps play part in the devleopment of new scientific theory, but only after a rigourous gauntlet of tests and repeated experimentation.

But the experiments can't be replicated anywhere else. You're assuming that I haven't talked with people religious and not about them or that the Catholic church doesn't do any criticizing or peer reviewing of it's general beliefs. Stuff that appears in the apostle's creed doesn't change, but the beliefs on most every day things change more often than most people think and there's a good amount of disagreement on various things inside the church.

generally people think that people believe their religion because it's just something they've done their whole life. Anybody who actually cares about their faith will surely tell you different.

[Jimmy Rabbitte]

[063abra old]

I personally feel that religion issues a form of fear and punishment with crimes. While what religion speaks is what I would consider "good" (ie dont kill, dont steal etc etc) it backs up breaking these rules with fear of a "hell".

In modern times more and more people do not believe in the "classic" religions and opt for a more agnostic/atheism route. What better way to cause fear than by saying these people are too going to hell as well. I dont believe peace by fear is ever a good thing.

Something I always think about is;
Is the man who is a good man because he fears the consequences of not being so, really a good man at all?

Your viewpoint of Christian theology is a bit bleak. It is a simple thing to condemn Christianity based on its post mortum consequences, but in reality, those are not of much concern.

This is my interpretation of it, whether it is "correct" or not is up to the individual in the end:

There is a God, the Father, who has created everything around us. He created man out of benevolence, because he is love. This does not mean that he is loving or that he made love, it means that God is love. He is complete altruistic benevolence, but even that does not descibe what love is. He created man not to force him to choose, but to share His creation with him because He is love. This is the same reason that man has a child, it is not simply to procreate, it is to love. Now the question would be "If God is perfect, why does he require someone to love?" The answer is he doesn't and never has, he is love and wished to share it. That is all.

Adam and Eve made a decision contrary to God who, being the Father, wished only to protect his children. The Tree of Knowledge is often misinterpreted, the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge gave man the ability to decide what behaviors are right and wrong for himself instead of doing what his Father, who is knowledge, asked him to. God could have hung up his hat there and smitten Adam and Eve, but he didn't: he numbered their days and allowed them to further partake in his creations because he gave them free will. He never held a gun to man's head and forced him to do his will, he wanted children, not robots.

This is the concept of original sin, which is strictly man's sin. Sin is defined as anything that separates man from God. Eden was union with God, God "walked among" Adam and Eve, so they separated themselves through acting in non-accordance with God's request. As a result, they were separated. Jesus Christ, the second Adam in a sense, was born as both a man and an incarnation of God in order to die as a blood sacrifice to allieviate original sin and allow union with God once more, a task previously impossible under Judaism: one could get close to God, but never in union with him as he once could. Blood is a significant theme throughout scripture, and was entirely necessary to forgive man of original sin if they accept Jesus Christ.

Jesus talked of Hell as "Gehenna", which was a trash furnace outside of Jerusalem in which a fire continually burned to consume the bad crops, etc. If one does not bear fruit, meaning one does not pass the seed that God gave to Adam onto his children or others, one is cast into the fires of Gehenna to be consumed when judgement comes. If one bears fruit and believes Jesus Christ to be his savior, one may achieve unity with God in heaven. The idea is not scare tactics, the idea is that we wish to be purified of our original sin and achieve unity with the One who created us all. We wish to achieve unity with love Himself, it's not that we fear Hell, because that's not even in the equation.

I hope I helped. If there are any questions or comments, feel free to post them. I'm 17 years old, so my intepretations may not be perfect, and I'd love to hear your take on things!

[Hrugnir]

Your viewpoint of Christian theology is a bit bleak. It is a simple thing to condemn Christianity based on its post mortum consequences, but in reality, those are not of much concern.

This is my interpretation of it, whether it is "correct" or not is up to the individual in the end:

There is a God, the Father, who has created everything around us. He created man out of benevolence, because he is love. This does not mean that he is loving or that he made love, it means that God is love. He is complete altruistic benevolence, but even that does not descibe what love is. He created man not to force him to choose, but to share His creation with him because He is love. This is the same reason that man has a child, it is not simply to procreate, it is to love. Now the question would be "If God is perfect, why does he require someone to love?" The answer is he doesn't and never has, he is love and wished to share it. That is all.

Adam and Eve made a decision contrary to God who, being the Father, wished only to protect his children. The Tree of Knowledge is often misinterpreted, the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge gave man the ability to decide what behaviors are right and wrong for himself instead of doing what his Father, who is knowledge, asked him to. God could have hung up his hat there and smitten Adam and Eve, but he didn't: he numbered their days and allowed them to further partake in his creations because he gave them free will. He never held a gun to man's head and forced him to do his will, he wanted children, not robots.

This is the concept of original sin, which is strictly man's sin. Sin is defined as anything that separates man from God. Eden was union with God, God "walked among" Adam and Eve, so they separated themselves through acting in non-accordance with God's request. As a result, they were separated. Jesus Christ, the second Adam in a sense, was born as both a man and an incarnation of God in order to die as a blood sacrifice to allieviate original sin and allow union with God once more, a task previously impossible under Judaism: one could get close to God, but never in union with him as he once could. Blood is a significant theme throughout scripture, and was entirely necessary to forgive man of original sin if they accept Jesus Christ.

Jesus talked of Hell as "Gehenna", which was a trash furnace outside of Jerusalem in which a fire continually burned to consume the bad crops, etc. If one does not bear fruit, meaning one does not pass the seed that God gave to Adam onto his children or others, one is cast into the fires of Gehenna to be consumed when judgement comes. If one bears fruit and believes Jesus Christ to be his savior, one may achieve unity with God in heaven. The idea is not scare tactics, the idea is that we wish to be purified of our original sin and achieve unity with the One who created us all. We wish to achieve unity with love Himself, it's not that we fear Hell, because that's not even in the equation.

I hope I helped. If there are any questions or comments, feel free to post them. I'm 17 years old, so my intepretations may not be perfect, and I'd love to hear your take on things!

Good to see you again, DA
And also good to see you come back home.

PS. Pure Pwnage isn't what I mean by home.

[premiumseocompany]

For me, religion is very important to human. It will guide us in a better way. See what was happening now in this world, some people don't believe in GOD now what's happening to us? God give us a lesson to learn that God exist and He just waiting for us to Praise HIM.

[otaku_4_life]

For me, religion is very important to human. It will guide us in a better way. See what was happening now in this world, some people don't believe in GOD now what's happening to us? God give us a lesson to learn that God exist and He just waiting for us to Praise HIM.

Bot as fuck.