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#2181
Hrugnir

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 5 2010, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Out of interest why do you feel Jesus frees you? Is it the high amount of sins you're not supposed to commit or have? The thought of having to go to church every Sunday?


Well, first of all, we have very different concepts of sin. According to today's society, "sin" is basically synonymous with "fun". This definition derives from various Puritan and policing movements that have claimed association with the teaching of Christ in various ways. The very original sin from which all other sin derives is the idea of taking the judging of good and evil into our own hands, and making ourselves gods. This mindset has driven and is still today driving people, perhaps especially religious people, to "police morality" from above, to force people into various standards of morality. This is not what Jesus did - He served people, and searched for the broken and rejected to heal them and restore them into the life they were meant to have - but only if they WANTED TO! This behaviour is supposed to be the model for the Church today, but unfortunately we're not that great at following it as a whole...

So, I don't deny that believers in Christ have, throughout the ages, done horrible things in the name of Christ, including murder, torture, lies and all other kinds of sin. I confess that *I* have done horrible things in the name of Christ throughout my life. Confessing such acts and turning away from it is part of following Christ.

Anyways, to get back to your question, I define sin differently from the common thought. I see sin as a disease, a black cancer on the creation that God made us to be. I might add that I do not think the first humans were absolutely perfect, as evolution shows. However, I do think the relationship to God that the first "life-breathed" Homo Sapiens had, was intact and whole, until they, however many, went their own way, collectively.

This is sin, to turn away from the source of Life Himself, and instead to rely on oneself. It's not the image of an obsessive parent trying to micro-manage our lives, and then gets mad when we stay out past 9 pm or something. That's not the sort of control or the kind of relationship God wants to have with us.

A better picture of God and Man is that of a father and a young son (or mother and daughter) out on a hike together, and walking in moderate distance from a deep ravine, when all of a sudden the son runs away, starts tumbling down the slope, hurting and bruising himself in various ways. The father cries out, tries to stretch out his hand, while the son refuses, instead deciding to jump further down. As this happens, the father climbs further down, all for the love of his son, who would never survive without the support of his father. It's not about control, it's about love.

So why do I say that Jesus has freed me? Well, as I said, I define as sin all the things in my life that separates me from a true and real view of myself, from a loving and harmonic view of all others and most of all, the beautiful, living, colourful relationship with God I'm supposed to have. As for what particular actions exemplify sin, I'm have no reason to list - it's the heart attitude that Jesus is most of all after (see Matthew 5), and then it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict believers of these things in their own lives. Only in close relationships between believers are we to "judge" or rather discern sin in each others lives, with love, and not with condemnation. But it is not my job as a Christian to point out to non-believers what I find to be sin.

But the attitudes that lie behind our actions are really the root of all evil. Egoism, hatred, judgement, desiring after things that aren't mine to desire (be they people or things), and all other things of self-indulgence that only leads to further egocentrism. All these things, I abhor.

But my faith, trust, life, love in and for Jesus Christ as the one who defeated sin, death and suffering with his self-sacrificial love poured out by his death on the cross, has, is, and will continue to restore these broken relationships in my life. Being continually saved/healed from my sins, frees me to love others as Christ has loved me. And that is the ultimate expression of freedom that a human being can experience: to love others in the same ways and that Christ loved us. It's a life project, but it is SO WORTH IT.

#2182
Master C

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Would you say you equate free will to sin Hrugnir? That sounds like what you are saying, kind of.

#2183
Hrugnir

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QUOTE (Master C @ Sep 6 2010, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would you say you equate free will to sin Hrugnir? That sounds like what you are saying, kind of.


No...
QUOTE (Hrugnir @ Sep 6 2010, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is sin, to turn away from the source of Life Himself, and instead to rely on oneself. It's not the image of an obsessive parent trying to micro-manage our lives, and then gets mad when we stay out past 9 pm or something. That's not the sort of control or the kind of relationship God wants to have with us.


Sin is to abuse free will, not just any use of it whatsoever. I look at it like this: Let's say there are 1000 great, loving and creative actions to do in a given situation. Truth and love is varied and creative. However, there are also 10-15 variations of egocentric actions that one can do. I view evil as mostly just bad rehashes of the same old sin.

However, that does not mean that all sinful actions are made by people who are fully aware of the extent to which they do wrong. Just like a really drunk person usually thinks he isn't so drunk, a really sinful person might not think he is living with sin. However, bear in mind that I view sin less in legal terms of trespassing and judgement, and more in terms of health, disease and healing. Sin is an ugly cancer that spreads on the inside, without us noticing. And only God can heal us from it!

But as I said, sin is a lot less varied than goodness! I think we are meant to be creative with our free will, but sin is an abuse of it where we ignore the wisdom of God and the relationship to Him to be central to how we live our lives, despite the fact that we would not exist a single second without His provision and upholding hand! We need Him more than oxygen or water, yet we try to find all kinds of substitutes to fill those needs.

Only within His will can we truly be free. True "independence" is not a concept that humans are made for. If we were, I'm not sure why we need so many things to even survive, or why we are so social.

#2184
Pawnator

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 5 2010, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So why are you even concerned of Satan? He doesn't have the ability to destroy anyone, God "loves everyone", surely there is no reason to care then? Or is it just the fact of Hell that has been a core thing that has kept the churches in business for years? icon_rolleyes.gif

I shall explain it with a colorful analogy!

Let's say you've been in a car accident and have experienced massive blood loss. You wake up at the hospital, and you're presented with two options: Receive a transfusion of O negative type blood, or receive a transfusion of cherry-flavor Koolaid.

You have the free will to choose either a transfusion of blood or koolaid, and nobody's forcing you to choose either. If you asked the hospital staff, they'd probably give you any other flavor of koolaid you'd like, or perhaps maybe even Mountain Dew or some grape drink.

But, alas, you choose the cherry-flavor Koolaid. At this point I would cry out, "No, don't do it! You'll die! And that's not even the best flavor of koolaid!" But you persist in choosing the koolaid because it's a very sugary and tangy beverage.

Now let's say that the blood transfusion represents the Divine Energies of God, and the cherry-flavor koolaid transfusion represents Satan.


#2185
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (Pawnator @ Sep 5 2010, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So by "hundreds of years" you mean a few satirical writings from the 18th century, and some occult groups from the 19th and early 20th centuries, right?

Perhaps you should get a little more life experience before avowing hatred for an entire religious group.

If you would like to read about how Enki was *actually* portrayed by the Sumerians, and not 19th and early 20th century historical revisionists and source-forgers, I suggest you go to the Oxford Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature.


If you don't like the fact that I relate him to Satan, that is up to you. You can relate him to Pan or someone else if that helps you sleep at night. But get a little more life experience before hatred of an entire religious group? Isn't that where EVERY SINGLE christian falls? You obviously have a grudge against me due to my religious choice, just like christianity has. Maybe you're the one that needs a little more life experience?

QUOTE (Rob` @ Sep 5 2010, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh good we're getting somewhere, you admit your belief is faith based. I don't quite understand where you think I said your faith changes your personal life but oh well.


QUOTE
Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past.


Your comment here relates to a faith causing the person to become violent. This is where I got it one.

QUOTE
My point is that your belief has no evidence or rational reasoning behind it, therefore it's faith based. My other point is that having hatred for a belief system which contradicts your own is stupid. You've done nothing to refute these points.


It is hatred due to their hatred of us. And don't dare say christians etc don't hate us, that is absolute bollocks. They have hated us for YEARS and even killed us in the past. If I mention my religion to ANY christian/jew whatever, they will hate me for it. Pure blind hatred, and you still can't understand any anger or hostility back on my part?


QUOTE
You're trying to claim that your belief in a deity is based on science.

"Most of satanism isn't at all based on faith but science"

IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE


No evidence in the fact of worshipping Satan as a deity. But other aspects of satanism DEFINITELY has scientific points behind them. Kirlian photography proves we have auras. Pseudo-science can prove effects of black magick. We believe in science that some christians still shun today. We believe in evolution and all other scientific break throughs, and believe that science is something that can prove everything. We worship effects of science, how the FUCK is that not based on science?

QUOTE
You tried to claim your belief in a deity is based on science...


Where? I have never claimed that. Don't through around bullshit and make up stuff.

QUOTE
I didn't see how anything you said related to anything I said. I still don't see it.

QUOTE
Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past.

Faith based? Most of satanism isn't at all based on faith but science, power, following ones mind and heart and doing whatever the hell we feel like. It's not particularly faith, we don't have a bible to read, fairy tales to tell us what our morals should be etc. Also, I think ALL of the violence has been the other way around, christians just out right murdering satanists or anything else related. I think that for a start can demonstrate our hatred, but unlike christians, we have never committed violence. Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc has ALOT of blood on their hands, and I mean ALOT to pay for. But the people that follow these religions still believe they're being good candidates for their so called heavens.


You are trying to make the point that satanism is faith based. You also state that that particular hatred (faith based hatred) manifests as violence, which I don't understand because true satanists haven't called violence in the past, and made the point of how the other "main stream" religions have. I don't understand if your point was bashing these religions, and had nothing at all in relation to satanism? I guess that must be it.

Thanks for your blind hostility, irrelevant points that are missing the ideas and the quotes completely. You obviously have an issue with me, which kind of proves the hatred back, but your sarcastic undertones, stupid dots...and CAPSLOCK is restricting your thought. Please take a breather before you reply to this. I don't enjoy reading through aggression when it has obviously blinded you on some of your arguments.

QUOTE (Pawnator @ Sep 6 2010, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cherry-flavour koolaid


Lol, I like the relationships. So for your beliefs, choosing Satan over God is where Satan has control? So in your eyes then, I'm damned and Satan will kill me or something?

@Hrugnir very interesting read, thanks for stating your beliefs. It's quite funny actually that you stated "The very original sin from which all other sin derives is the idea of taking the judging of good and evil into our own hands, and making ourselves gods." This is actually something that a lot of satanists in fact do, we try to better ourselves to become better people, some say to become "gods" (the term here is loosely used). As well as this morality and therefore ofcourse judging good and evil is sometimes taken into a satanists own hands. We like to judge what is good and evil for ourselves at times.

#2186
Pawnator

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol, I like the relationships. So for your beliefs, choosing Satan over God is where Satan has control? So in your eyes then, I'm damned and Satan will kill me or something?


No, you're trying to suckle life from a source that does not produce life, so you're probably in a pretty thirsty state right now.

QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kirlian photography proves we have auras. Pseudo-science can prove effects of black magick.


Avatar, for your own benefit I suggest that you postpone any major life-decisions based around this belief. You should learn more about the scientific method and about other religions in general, and get some more life experience. Because you're betraying serious flaws in thinking here.

Edited by Pawnator, 06 September 2010 - 05:41 AM.


#2187
Kipzz

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kirlian photography proves we have auras. Pseudo-science can prove effects of black magick.

Kirlian photography just shows moisture evaporation from the pores of the skin, go read a little.


Pseudoscience (by definition) cannot prove anything, as (by definition) it is unproven.
QUOTE (Whiskerz @ Apr 23 2010, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tried talking to a woman once, but it glitched and didn't give me any conversation options.


#2188
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (ŁΰŹĭęr @ Sep 6 2010, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kirlian photography just shows moisture evaporation from the pores of the skin, go read a little.


Pseudoscience (by definition) cannot prove anything, as (by definition) it is unproven.


Sorry, I used the wrong word, the science of the mind I meant, psychological science is it called? I can't think of the actual term of it.

#2189
Garamiah

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I'm just trying to follow this thread and I am lost. I don't understand enough about 'Satanism' to fully understand what's going on here, but when you say Christians hate you... well duh. You worship the very thing that they have sworn to turn against. Each year they make a vow to 'reject Satan, father of sin and prince of darkness'. They're sworn to turn away from Satan and his agents. This Satan that they oppose is mostly a construct of Christianity, so regardless of your point of view, they are going to hate you for aligning yourself with the devil. It eludes me as to why you do not refer to your diety by another name that would not lead to such misunderstandings.
QUOTE (Plasmic Fury @ Jul 11 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was in the ocean and I had a frizbee, and some 8/10's were like THROW IT TO US and I just pretended I didnt hear them and swam quickly back to beach.


#2190
Hrugnir

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QUOTE (Garamiah @ Sep 6 2010, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm just trying to follow this thread and I am lost. I don't understand enough about 'Satanism' to fully understand what's going on here, but when you say Christians hate you... well duh. You worship the very thing that they have sworn to turn against. Each year they make a vow to 'reject Satan, father of sin and prince of darkness'. They're sworn to turn away from Satan and his agents. This Satan that they oppose is mostly a construct of Christianity, so regardless of your point of view, they are going to hate you for aligning yourself with the devil. It eludes me as to why you do not refer to your diety by another name that would not lead to such misunderstandings.


I agree that there have been persecutions by Christians against all kinds of non-Christian religions, including various pagan ideas. However, I am not really sure how to know whether or not those Teh_Avatar considers heritage from were persecuted or not, because it's hard for me to pin down. Regardless, I refuse to believe that this behaviour from Christians stem from the man who taught his followers to serve others, love their enemies and take up their cross and follow Him in a life (and possibly death) like him. I rather think the (correct) recognition that other religions aren't good, paired with a sinful human desire to control the behaviour of others, when that is up to God.

So no, I do not see it as my duty, as a Christian and opposer of all spiritual powers of darkness, to hate satanists or any other human being whatsoever. In fact, I don't even attempt to hate satan or any of his associates. I'm angry with him, but what can truly destroy darkness is loving people even more.

QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@Hrugnir very interesting read, thanks for stating your beliefs. It's quite funny actually that you stated "The very original sin from which all other sin derives is the idea of taking the judging of good and evil into our own hands, and making ourselves gods." This is actually something that a lot of satanists in fact do, we try to better ourselves to become better people, some say to become "gods" (the term here is loosely used). As well as this morality and therefore ofcourse judging good and evil is sometimes taken into a satanists own hands. We like to judge what is good and evil for ourselves at times.


Thank you as well. It's interesting to see other views than just vague Christianity and Atheism/Agnosticism/Scepticism being discussed in this thread. I do regret that this section is called Debate (despite the fact that I was one of the people who started this section along with Afterburner), because Religion should not only be a matter of debate, of trying to destroy the others' arguments. It's about the heart.

As for "making oneself god", I admit I partly emphasized that because I know the Garden of Eden is a story with radically different interpretations by Christians compared to Left-Hand Pathers, Occultists and Satanists.

I should add though, that there is a concept of "being divinized" in Christian thought as well. In Protestant Christianity, there is a concept called "sanctification", which could be defined as "becoming more holy" or a "godly refining of one's character". It is often very much separated from "being saved", which is often talked about as a one-time event that defines one's life. However, in the Eastern Orthodox church and in some neo-Evangelical movements, the processes of salvation and sanctification are not separated as much. The Orthodox call this process "theosis", or "divinization". Salvation in this tradition has a wholly different terminology than in the West, partly because its terminology is much older (3-5th century AD and onwards).

St. Athanasius said in the 4th century: "God became man so that man might become a god". God became incarnate in Jesus Christ, so that Mankind could be saved into being the Image of God they were meant to be. This should, however, not be understood in the way that some New Agers read it today, where we all have a "divine spark", because we're all part of one, big, unpersonal god. No, instead the point is that we are destined for a higher life than this, that God wants to lead us into by the hand. However, I do believe this happens in a union with Him, all the while we remain distinct entities, and in the end He will always remain the one who is my Creator and a metaphysically superior being. God wants to dance with us into deeper depths of love and knowledge and higher heights of adventure and ability, but it's based on relationship.

You might have heard it a billion times, but true Christianity is not (at least primarily) a religion, but a relationship. I truly believe this to the core of my being - personality and loving relationships is the foundation and purpose of to everything I hold as true.

#2191
Rob`

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QUOTE
Your comment here relates to a faith causing the person to become violent. This is where I got it one.


No my comment related to hatred for other faiths causing people to become violent.

QUOTE
It is hatred due to their hatred of us. And don't dare say christians etc don't hate us, that is absolute bollocks. They have hated us for YEARS and even killed us in the past. If I mention my religion to ANY christian/jew whatever, they will hate me for it. Pure blind hatred, and you still can't understand any anger or hostility back on my part?


This is depressing. All I said was and I'll quote "Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past." I wasn't even talking about Christianity and Satanism. It was a general statement and it includes the hatred christians and jews would have for satanism.


QUOTE
No evidence in the fact of worshipping Satan as a deity. But other aspects of satanism DEFINITELY has scientific points behind them.


LMAO this should be good.

QUOTE
Kirlian photography proves we have auras.


From wikipedia

" The accepted physical explanation is that the images produced are those typically caused by a high voltage corona effect, similar to those seen from other high voltage sources such as the Van de Graaff generator or Tesla coil. In a darkened room, this is visible as a faint glow but, because of the high voltages, the film is affected in a slightly different way from the usual. Color photographic film is calibrated to faithfully produce colors when exposed to normal light. The corona discharge has a somewhat different effect on the different layers of dye used to accomplish this result, resulting in various colors depending on the local intensity of the discharge.[9]


QUOTE
Pseudo-science can prove effects of black magick.


No it can't. Pseudo-science is utterly detrimental to the advancement of knowledge and can prove nothing. If you think you have some evidence for black magick feel free to link it.

QUOTE
We believe in science that some christians still shun today.


Seeing as how you seem to think the Kirlian effect is evidence for these auras I think it's fair to say that just like christians you accept science and pseudo-science as convenient. You're as bad as each other imo.

QUOTE
We believe in evolution and all other scientific break throughs


Yes so do most people with common sense.

QUOTE
and believe that science is something that can prove everything.


Science can't prove everything, there are limitations.

QUOTE
We worship effects of science, how the FUCK is that not based on science?"


What the fuck does that even mean?

QUOTE
Where? I have never claimed that. Don't through around bullshit and make up stuff.


Very sorry, I made a guess as to what you meant by "satanism is meant by science."

QUOTE
You are trying to make the point that satanism is faith based.


I succeeded, you even agreed with me remember?

QUOTE
You also state that that particular hatred (faith based hatred) manifests as violence,


I said that it has done so quite frequently in the past.

QUOTE
which I don't understand because true satanists haven't called violence in the past, and made the point of how the other "main stream" religions have. I don't understand if your point was bashing these religions, and had nothing at all in relation to satanism? I guess that must be it.


No true scotsman. And yes my original reply to you was bashing religion in general.

QUOTE
Thanks for your blind hostility, irrelevant points that are missing the ideas and the quotes completely. You obviously have an issue with me, which kind of proves the hatred back, but your sarcastic undertones, stupid dots...and CAPSLOCK is restricting your thought. Please take a breather before you reply to this. I don't enjoy reading through aggression when it has obviously blinded you on some of your arguments.


You're welcome.

Perhaps if this signature is witty enough, someone will finally love me.


#2192
Hrugnir

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PS. Avatar, saying "science can prove everything" is not being scientific, it science faith, or "Scientism".

#2193
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (Rob` @ Sep 6 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No my comment related to hatred for other faiths causing people to become violent.


-.- Difference? Non. Also, your comment was one faiths hatred for another faith can cause people to become violent. You can't even read your own quote, VERY DEPRESSING.

QUOTE
This is depressing. All I said was and I'll quote "Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past." I wasn't even talking about Christianity and Satanism. It was a general statement and it includes the hatred christians and jews would have for satanism.


So uhm, you agree with my point? Thanks? Why the fuck are you arguing when you are completely agreeing with me?

QUOTE
From wikipedia

" The accepted physical explanation is that the images produced are those typically caused by a high voltage corona effect, similar to those seen from other high voltage sources such as the Van de Graaff generator or Tesla coil. In a darkened room, this is visible as a faint glow but, because of the high voltages, the film is affected in a slightly different way from the usual. Color photographic film is calibrated to faithfully produce colors when exposed to normal light. The corona discharge has a somewhat different effect on the different layers of dye used to accomplish this result, resulting in various colors depending on the local intensity of the discharge.[9]


You didn't read the whole wikipedia article did you? Where it goes on to discuss auras. *SIGH*

QUOTE
No it can't. Pseudo-science is utterly detrimental to the advancement of knowledge and can prove nothing. If you think you have some evidence for black magick feel free to link it.


Read above ffs. If you're not going to read posts, don't post! I stated that I meant psychological science.

QUOTE
Seeing as how you seem to think the Kirlian effect is evidence for these auras I think it's fair to say that just like christians you accept science and pseudo-science as convenient. You're as bad as each other imo.


I acknowledge all science. In fact I work in the field of science. Your blind claims are just ignorant. Accept science when convenient? Please grow up haha. What nonsense


QUOTE
Science can't prove everything, there are limitations.


Limitations for now.


QUOTE
Very sorry, I made a guess as to what you meant by "satanism is meant by science."


It's okay, you're obviously uneducated in the area. Satanism =/= JUST SATAN. Obviously. That's like thinking christianity just means you worship God as a deity. That is just a very thick assumption.


QUOTE
I succeeded, you even agreed with me remember?


Huh? What the FUCK are you smoking? It must be some heavy shit. Seriously. Quote me when I agreed haha. I think it comes down to your stupidity about religions yet again. Satanism isn't just worshipping satan, just like christianity isn't just worshipping God etc. Come on dude seriously! You are making me facepalm icon_sad.gif How do you not know that?! I think even 10 year olds know that lol. You choose not to know that just to argue.

QUOTE
I said that it has done so quite frequently in the past.

No true scotsman. And yes my original reply to you was bashing religion in general.


Ok...Thanks for agreeing with me then icon_confused.gif

QUOTE
You're welcome.


I notice you still keep the hostility. And it still completely blinds your mind and thought. You need to calm down before posting, because it makes you post VERY stupid things without thinking about them beforehand lol.

@Hrugnir Thanks for your support, but yet again blind hatred for a satanist is portrayed throughout. This thread should SERIOUSLY be called "Main Stream Religions + Atheism/Agnosticism/Scepticism", because it seriously pisses me off that people don't really have any point to make, they just want to argue about beliefs. I should have just came in this topic and wrote "Fuck you all", think I'd still get the same reaction from cocky people that don't like them being questioned on their beliefs and religion, but are fine trying to argue over someone elses. Tis ridiculous, and in fact it isn't a debate, it is a bash thread currently against me. I only came to share my religion, maybe discuss and debate a few points to which it might interest some, its ended up pure blind hatred. Typical eh? icon_rolleyes.gif And us Satanists are supposed to be the ones full of hatred haha.


#2194
way2lazy2care

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is hatred due to their hatred of us. And don't dare say christians etc don't hate us, that is absolute bollocks. They have hated us for YEARS and even killed us in the past. If I mention my religion to ANY christian/jew whatever, they will hate me for it. Pure blind hatred, and you still can't understand any anger or hostility back on my part?

I am a catholic and I don't hate you. I think you are misguided, but I don't hate you at all.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#2195
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Sep 6 2010, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am a catholic and I don't hate you. I think you are misguided, but I don't hate you at all.


You are one of few that doesn't hate me as this thread has kind of shown icon_sad.gif

#2196
Rob`

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I think this entire argument is just you misunderstanding what I originally wrote.

"Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past."

Firstly ludricous faith based set of beliefs didn't refer specifically to Satanism, Christianity, Judaism. It referred to every religion which requires faith. Satanism is included in this because you need to have faith that this entity "Satan" exists. Judaism would also be on the list because they need to have faith that the Old Testament is correct. There isn't a single theistic religion which wouldn't be on this list because they all require faith that some deity exists.

The hatred part wasn't specifically talking about the hatred a satanist might have for the abrahamic religions or the hatred that a follower of the abrahamic religions might have for satanism. It refers to every instance of a religious follower hating a different religion. This includes everything from a hindu hating christianity, a jew hating budhism, a satanist hating christianity and a christian hating satanism. They're all equally retarded (from an atheistic viewpoint there's no good reason to choose any of these religions over another) and possibly dangerous (in the past religious followers have been incited into violence through their hatred of other religions).

Now that's that clarified there's just the bit where you try to claim that Satanism is backed by science.

QUOTE
You didn't read the whole wikipedia article did you? Where it goes on to discuss auras. *SIGH*


What this article? http://en.wikipedia....ian_photography It doesn't talk about auras as if they were the accepted explanation.

QUOTE
Read above ffs. If you're not going to read posts, don't post! I stated that I meant psychological science.


I still want to see this evidence.

QUOTE
I acknowledge all science. In fact I work in the field of science. Your blind claims are just ignorant. Accept science when convenient? Please grow up haha. What nonsense


Then why don't you accept the scientific explanation for Kirlian photography?

QUOTE
Limitations for now.


Well for a start it's impossible to prove that string theory is correct, it's also impossible to falsify string theory with anything other than theory work. Also proving or disproving the existence of a supernatural entity isn't possible for science.

QUOTE
Huh? What the FUCK are you smoking? It must be some heavy shit. Seriously. Quote me when I agreed haha. I think it comes down to your stupidity about religions yet again. Satanism isn't just worshipping satan, just like christianity isn't just worshipping God etc. Come on dude seriously! You are making me facepalm icon_sad.gif How do you not know that?! I think even 10 year olds know that lol. You choose not to know that just to argue.


"The only faith is upon Satan as a deity." ie the foundation of Satanism is a belief you can only accept through faith.

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#2197
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (Rob` @ Sep 6 2010, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think this entire argument is just you misunderstanding what I originally wrote.

"Subscribing to one ludicrous faith based set of beliefs and hating other ludicrous faith based sets of beliefs because they contradict your ludicrous faith based set of beliefs is first retarded and secondly dangerous when that hatred manifests as violence as it has so often in the past."

Firstly ludricous faith based set of beliefs didn't refer specifically to Satanism, Christianity, Judaism. It referred to every religion which requires faith. Satanism is included in this because you need to have faith that this entity "Satan" exists. Judaism would also be on the list because they need to have faith that the Old Testament is correct. There isn't a single theistic religion which wouldn't be on this list because they all require faith that some deity exists.

The hatred part wasn't specifically talking about the hatred a satanist might have for the abrahamic religions or the hatred that a follower of the abrahamic religions might have for satanism. It refers to every instance of a religious follower hating a different religion. This includes everything from a hindu hating christianity, a jew hating budhism, a satanist hating christianity and a christian hating satanism. They're all equally retarded (from an atheistic viewpoint there's no good reason to choose any of these religions over another) and possibly dangerous (in the past religious followers have been incited into violence through their hatred of other religions).


Whatever dude. You are just typing crap to type crap lol. The only thing this is saying that you shouldn't have even wrote it in the first place. It was a random observationary comment that was made for no real reason, I understand now.

QUOTE
Now that's that clarified there's just the bit where you try to claim that Satanism is backed by science.

What this article? http://en.wikipedia....ian_photography It doesn't talk about auras as if they were the accepted explanation.


/Facepalm. Science part is the explanation of the aura. HENCE WHY ITS UNDER THE SUBTITLE EXPLANATION.

QUOTE
I still want to see this evidence.


/Facepalm again. It's kind of common sense lets be honest. A black magick confidence spell involves repeating a paragraph to a mirror, that will give confidence. A curse will make you feel better for when you've cursed someone, it relieves anger. The victim of said curse will put negative effects to the curse. Very common events really. And very simple psychological methods.

QUOTE
Then why don't you accept the scientific explanation for Kirlian photography?


Eh? Read above.

QUOTE
Well for a start it's impossible to prove that string theory is correct, it's also impossible to falsify string theory with anything other than theory work. Also proving or disproving the existence of a supernatural entity isn't possible for science.


K.

QUOTE
"The only faith is upon Satan as a deity." ie the foundation of Satanism is a belief you can only accept through faith.


Very ignorant statement. Very very VERY ignorant. Satanism isn't even necessarily based on Satan at all. And satanism has a lot of other foundations than the pure fact of satan as a deity. Ignorance shines through here. My satanism includes Satan as a deity, but that is not its core base lol. I hope that you are referring Satanism in this comment as spiritual satanism, and not satanism as a whole.

I'm not really interested in your small points just to try and make an argument if you have no idea on any of it. If you are interested to learn more to why I follow this path or whatever then fine, but you are just here to argue lets be honest here.

Edited by Teh_Avatar, 06 September 2010 - 01:59 PM.


#2198
way2lazy2care

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very ignorant statement. Very very VERY ignorant. Satanism isn't even necessarily based on Satan at all. And satanism has a lot of other foundations than the pure fact of satan as a deity. Ignorance shines through here.

he is replying specifically to you. Your belief is based on Satan being a deity.
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QUOTE (Virus52 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#2199
Rob`

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QUOTE (Teh_Avatar @ Sep 6 2010, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatever dude. You are just typing crap to type crap lol. The only thing this is saying that you shouldn't have even wrote it in the first place. It was a random observationary comment that was made for no real reason, I understand now.


I swear you're just being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic.

QUOTE
/Facepalm. Science part is the explanation of the aura. HENCE WHY ITS UNDER THE SUBTITLE EXPLANATION.


No it explains why there appears to be what Kirlian thought was an aura without invoking the idea of an aura.

QUOTE
/Facepalm again. It's kind of common sense lets be honest. A black magick confidence spell involves repeating a paragraph to a mirror, that will give confidence. A curse will make you feel better for when you've cursed someone, it relieves anger. The victim of said curse will put negative effects to the curse. Very common events really. And very simple psychological methods.


So in other words you believe that black magick has nothing more to offer than a placebo affect. You don't believe that they have any actual power. How is that in any way consistent with the idea that black magick works?

I don't think any comedian could make this up.

QUOTE
Very ignorant statement. Very very VERY ignorant. Satanism isn't even necessarily based on Satan at all. And satanism has a lot of other foundations than the pure fact of satan as a deity. Ignorance shines through here. My satanism includes Satan as a deity, but that is not its core base lol. I hope that you are referring Satanism in this comment as spiritual satanism, and not satanism as a whole.


I was referring to the Satanism that you follow.

By the way I'm not responding any more unless if you start using some critical thinking.

Edited by Rob`, 06 September 2010 - 02:18 PM.

Perhaps if this signature is witty enough, someone will finally love me.


#2200
Teh_Avatar

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QUOTE (Rob` @ Sep 6 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I swear you're just being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic.

No it explains why there appears to be what Kirlian thought was an aura without invoking the idea of an aura.

So in other words you believe that black magick has nothing more to offer than a placebo affect. You don't believe that they have any actual power. How is that in any way consistent with the idea that black magick works?

I don't think any comedian could make this up.

I was referring to the Satanism that you follow.

By the way I'm not responding any more unless if you start using some critical thinking.


First, you were the antagonistic one. Second it does involve the kirlian aura, that is where that term funnily enough comes from. Black magick obviously does have actual power, the power of the mind, as explained. I don't think a comedian could come up with your shit. I already told you MANY times that Satan isn't the centre of ANY satanism, he is a part of it. Please, don't reply, because your replies are fucking worthless to provoke me. You have no common sense, no real points of argument, no actual position in ideology, NO knowledge on the subject of satanism (and I mean NON), and you have proven absolutely nothing apart from the fact that you can dodge a lot of what I've said. (Or maybe you just choose not to understand it, which is what I'm beginning to be led to believe). Anyway, don't reply, I don't want to read your shit worthless replies that are posted PURELY for the sake of arguing.

Edited by Teh_Avatar, 06 September 2010 - 03:54 PM.





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