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Am i missing something here?

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#41
hackerwacker

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My opinion of why starcraft is so popular is because of its 'elite' crowd gamers. EVERYBODY want to be the next Boxer.

Many starcraft players have been playing the game for years; perfecting every part of their B.O. and parcticing for hours and hours to increase their micro and apm to an amazing level. But what would happen if any of these top Starcraft players tried playing another game, such as Dawn of War? I garuntee you they would get their ass kicked

TBH they are afraid to move on from their precious game and lose their elite status. They are afraid that the 'noobs' they pwned on battlenet last night will school them in any game of C&C.

there are much better games out there than starcraft.



QUOTE
...I'm gunna kill you....

thanks for that
i welcome you to try.

#42
Rod

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Hacker presents a good point. So many SC players simply won't move on, and just play it because they can beat any noob. SC has a huge learning curve to get to a respectable level of play, that alone makes it a shit game because its not about tactics or micro untill you have played the game for 1 year+ and have practiced the most lame shit like splitting your gatherers. Timing your BO's. Scouting. You don't even need to play against a player for the first month of your training because its all speed training in the first few min of the game to make sure you execute a BO perfectly every time. Hand me a copy of any CnC game over SC.

#43
m30wc0w

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The game has a reputation. Thats for sure. There is a major fanbase for the game and there is always room to improve. The decisions you make can either make you or destroy you. Starcraft is like caligraphy. It looks simple, but theres much more to it.

#44
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QUOTE (hackerwacker @ Jul 7 2006, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My opinion of why starcraft is so popular is because of its 'elite' crowd gamers. EVERYBODY want to be the next Boxer.


Yeah.. spot on there.. icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Many starcraft players have been playing the game for years; perfecting every part of their B.O. and parcticing for hours and hours to increase their micro and apm to an amazing level. But what would happen if any of these top Starcraft players tried playing another game, such as Dawn of War? I garuntee you they would get their ass kicked


That's just stupid.. unlike FPS switching from an RTS to another means you have to learn the whole game(I guess imo). If you have a good SC (or any RTS really..) player, give them sometime at DoW as you mention, i'm sure they would be good at DoW aswell, as they have showen the potential/dedication that they can become good gamers.

QUOTE
TBH they are afraid to move on from their precious game and lose their elite status. They are afraid that the 'noobs' they pwned on battlenet last night will school them in any game of C&C.


Kind of stupid aswell.. ever think SC players play the game because they want to? becuase they enjoy it?



QUOTE (Rod @ Jul 7 2006, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hacker presents a good point. So many SC players simply won't move on, and just play it because they can beat any noob. SC has a huge learning curve to get to a respectable level of play, that alone makes it a shit game because its not about tactics or micro untill you have played the game for 1 year+ and have practiced the most lame shit like splitting your gatherers. Timing your BO's. Scouting. You don't even need to play against a player for the first month of your training because its all speed training in the first few min of the game to make sure you execute a BO perfectly every time. Hand me a copy of any CnC game over SC.


Again, maybe they play becuase they want to? Why do you play CnC? I heard your good, now that your good is it time to move on?

Some people do play for fun, and don't worry about being all pro. I know back when I had no idea, playing SC my 1st year was fun as, playing with my freinds, not having a care in the world.

This is just kind of turning to opinion, and so useless.

#45
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A low class warcraft 3 gosu managed to switch to dow and get top for wcg easily.You telling me an sc gosu cant do that?

#46
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great game, great story, great sound, great graphics. Starcraft

#47
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dude, some of you guys need to go use the search feature.. i have explained millions of times why sc is great and its not just balance, the online system of battle.net which was created for starcraft and later lead to wc2 b.net edition along with the diabli and rest of the wc series joining it. the single player campaign which is gripping, teaches you how to play well and has an amazingly well-made story. The balance...ofc...

The maps and custom editors etc. Starcraft pretty much invented custom maps, it was possibly the 1st game ever with "triggers" allowing you to make all sorts of effects. All games before only allowed you to make a map then play it normally. on starcraft people started making maps where you had 1 unit which you could upgrade.. then micro maps were born. soon after that mass attack maps and bound maps were born. The mapping on this game started a whole revolution. I think every wc3 fan will agree without Starcraft DOTA wouldnt exist.

Maps got more and more complex and as new custom unofficial editors like SCM Draft, GU Edit, X-Tra Editor came out it became possible to make units invisible which shouldnt be.. make ramps wider and thinner than normally allowed, make new doodads. Custom maps started copying other well known games and even film maps were introduced. Where scripts were made for charicters and your screen automaticly followed the action.
The sound files allowed in SC let people experiment more with audio instructions and sound effects added to the games.

ok.. yah see now you got me started its tempted to explain the others more icon_razz.gif. Ontop of all of that there is the immense popularity of the game.. ok, so it means some people say its good just to be a sheep. But alot of that popularity is true fans like me. In zero hour, age of empires dawn of war no matter what.. you often see no more than a thousand or so people online at a time.. on starcraft there is never a shortage of opponents.

The game also runs on almost any computer... this means people from poorer countrys get a chance to play some pc games. the game will even run without lag on a 28k modem! This game is giving alot of poorer countrys a chance to get a say in gaming aswell.

The Melee games are intense, as mapping progressed Fastest Maps were introduced aswell where minerals were all stacked giving a near endless supply and increasing your income by a huge percentage. This means games totally changed, rushes were faster, bases were bigger, armies were bigger, battles were bigger. Appealing to many people it even started several leagues and tournaments.

Low money maps remained the focal point though. Although many people think korea totally dominate the SC scene they are actually quite incorrect. More koreans play starcraft than the rest of the world put together now. But still countrys like Poland, Germany, Russia, USA, Canada are still all well up there, and the top players from those countrys can often beat some of the famous koreans.

On a lower down level players kept it intresting by creating PGT, WGT, BWCL along with hundreds of other lesser known leagues. This allowed players to play competatively at their own levels. Still PGT and WGT are no place for noobs, but now even i hope to start a new league. Allowing lesser skilled players in and opening it up to the newer players who often feel not good enough by the shire number of skilled players online today.

What shall i explain next? Balance?

The balance on starcraft is the most famous bit. Never before and never since has there been a game where evrything possible has a counter, and its a 3 way thing! Each race has a counter for every unit in every other race.. protoss vs zerg the zerg goes hydras to counter goons... so the protoss goes storms.. so then the zerg goes air.. so the protoss goes corsairs, so the zerg goes devourers and hydras... then the the protoss gets dark archorns for mealstrom and storm... so the serg gets cracklings and defilers.. so the protoss gets reavers and zealots... so then the zerg gets ultralisks.. that is just 1 match up.. the possibilities are truely endless.

if someone went mass battlecruiser (one of the most powerful units in the game) then the protoss could kill it with about 2-3 psyonic storms, which takes less tech and less money.. the zerg could use scourges + hydras or plague + hydras. The same applys for every race.

Infact i just found something to explain the balance even better, i stole this off lollypop i think his name is from another thread on here.

QUOTE (Lollerpops @ Jul 6 2006, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Terran Marine
  • Zerg Counter: Lurker / Guardian
  • Protoss Counter: Zealot / Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Firebat / Vulture
Terran Firebat
  • Zerg Counter: Hydralisk
  • Protoss Counter: Dragoon / Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Siege TanK / Goliath
Terran Ghost
  • Zerg Counter: Hydralisk
  • Protoss Counter: Zealot
  • Terran Counter: Vulture / Science Vessel
Terran Vulture
  • Zerg Counter: Hydralisk
  • Protoss Counter: Dragoon
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank
Terran Siege Tank
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Terran Goliath
  • Zerg Counter: Hydralisk
  • Protoss Counter: Dragoon
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank
Terran Wraith
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk/Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Corsair
  • Terran Counter: Valkyrie
Terran Battlecruiser
  • Zerg Counter: Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Terran Science Vessel
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Terran Valkyrie
  • Zerg Counter: Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Carrier
  • Terran Counter: Battlecruiser
Terran Medic
  • Zerg Counter: Queen
  • Protoss Counter: Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Science Vessel
Protoss Zealot
  • Zerg Counter: Lurker
  • Protoss Counter: Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Firebat / Vulture
Protoss Dragoon
  • Zerg Counter: Zergling
  • Protoss Counter: Dragoon / Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank
Protoss Templar
  • Zerg Counter: Queen
  • Protoss Counter: Arbitor
  • Terran Counter: Science Vessel
Protoss Archon (Regular and Dark)
  • Zerg Counter: Hydralisk
  • Protoss Counter: Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank / Science Vessel
Protoss Reaver
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Valkyrie / Siege Tank
Protoss Scout
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk/Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Corsair
  • Terran Counter: Valkyrie
Protoss Corsair
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk/Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Carrier
  • Terran Counter: Battlecruiser
Protoss Carrier
  • Zerg Counter: Devourer/Scourge
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Protoss Arbiter
  • Zerg Counter: Sourge
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Science Vessel
Zerg Zergling
  • Zerg Counter: Lurker
  • Protoss Counter: Zealot / Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Firebat / Vulture
Zerg Hydralisk
  • Zerg Counter: Zergling
  • Protoss Counter: Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Marine / Siege Tank
Zerg Ultralisk
  • Zerg Counter: Queen
  • Protoss Counter: Archon
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank
Zerg Mutalisk
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk / Devourer
  • Protoss Counter: Corsair
  • Terran Counter: Valkyrie
Zerg Guardian
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk / Devourerer
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Zerg Devourer
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk / Scourge
  • Protoss Counter: Scout
  • Terran Counter: Wraith
Zerg Scourge
  • Zerg Counter: Mutalisk
  • Protoss Counter: Corsair
  • Terran Counter: Battlecrusier
Zerg Lurker
  • Zerg Counter: Guardian
  • Protoss Counter: Reaver
  • Terran Counter: Siege Tank
Zerg Queen
  • Zerg Counter: Scourge
  • Protoss Counter: Corsair
  • Terran Counter: Science Vessel / Medic
Zerg Defiler
  • Zerg Counter: Lurker
  • Protoss Counter: Zealot
  • Terran Counter: Science Vessel / Medic
Took me about 20 minutes to copy that from the strategy book. Enjoy..


And now consider how insane it is to start countering the counters, and when you have a selections of several of the units all together. e.g. reavers+corsairs vs zerg..

Micro + Macro

Lets face it.. starcraft invented it really. Prevoisly the RTS genre was full of games more like Total Annihalation and the C&C series, both of which were more focused on building massive armies with an endless limit then oblitterating your enemies with massive numbers. No micro or macro required in comparison to alot of todays games like DoW or Zero Hour.

Macro came in because on starcraft it was alot harder and slower to build up a good econemy. So people wanted to spend every penny wisely. Build orders started being made as it was discovered you could tech really fast or go basic units or do safe builds to protect vs an enemy who did either. Hundreds of stratergys were born. Fast expansions, slow expansions, deffensive expansions, rushing with deffensive buildings, building near/inside the enemys base, going mass deffense and teching to carriers/bcs etc.. massing out on everything and expanding when needed, going unit drops, pushing with tanks, reavers or guardians or lurkers. The list of tactics born is never ending, and everyone came up with their own versions. People soon discovered you could disrupt your enemys Macro skills by harrassing them or stealing their money. The now well known manner pylon was born along with several other simular tactics.

Macro was more or less invented by SC.

To start on Micro is impossible.. i guess one day some1 realised when fighting zerglings with marines that he could move a marine and the zerglighs chased allowing his units to stay alive more easily fireing on the zerglings from range.. then the zergs got burrow and started learning to flank and ambush troops. The protoss started learning effective ways of using their spells such as psyonic storm and d-web. Soon it turned into a frenzy with everyone selecting what their units should attack whilst reatreating others and attacking with another squad in a totally different part of the map. Whilst doing all of this the players had to remember to macro controling their resources and maybe even teching at the same time. Players soon discovered bugs in the game like burrowing a unit under another then unborrowing to get past mineral blacks or anything else.

Players started placing buildings strategicly to help them micro and deffend.

Starcraft invented almost all of this! Without starcraft alot of modern RTS games you guys love wouldnt exist.



now that ive spent half an hour writing this and live in fear of a power cut id like absolutly every one of you who thinks this game isnt the best RTS to explain why what you think is the best RTS is the best RTS.

I have played alot of RTS games as alot of you know. And from what ive played this is the best.


I have probably missed quite afew things, but when i think of them i will add them.

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#48
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You guys suffer serious SC fanboyism.

Also didnt Age of Empires 1 have custom scenarios? Like proper ones? I know for a fact that the makers used the custom scenario stuff to make the 1 players campaign.

#49
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as far as i can remember they didnt have anything allowing the end users (us) to make custom maps though.. just normal one.. nothing like the missions in single player where u go round with like 3 archers and a swordsman etc etc..

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#50
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QUOTE (Kurt_ @ Jul 5 2006, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Starcraft. What the hell?

For a start the graphics are sickening. They're awful to look at and make playing the game (or attempting, should I say) rather uncompftable.

Secondly, what the hell do I do?
I started off on single player. I learned how to mine the ore that was around me, but what I did with my terrans was not so obvious. I grouped them together and set them off out. They patrolled the map fully and killed all the little pink things. Then I just went back to my base and waited. I don't know what I was waiting for; some kind of confirmation I had won? Some kind of sign of what to do next? I don't know.

Then I just closed it. To be very honest it was a complete waste of money.



well, everyone is just saying how noob u are.. but ur actually a newbie. If u never played a rts before i can imagine it is quit difficult to pick it up. however u are pretty by saying it sux cus of the graphics..

Try to do a tutorial in starcraft. You will get explained there what you must do and how i guess. Just because all this people try to flame u to hell, doesnt mean u should quit. It is a good game when u get the hang of it i guess (although maybe it is not your game).

gl


There must be some kind of way out of here...



#51
kmjnhb

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QUOTE (Nemesis.cF- @ Jul 7 2006, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
as far as i can remember they didnt have anything allowing the end users (us) to make custom maps though.. just normal one.. nothing like the missions in single player where u go round with like 3 archers and a swordsman etc etc..
Don't remember with AoE1, but AoE2 has a great custom map creator IMO, it allows you to make your own campaign type maps and gameplay... And there has been made a lot of great custom campaigns for AoE2...

If you have AoE2, I suggest you download theese custom campaigns:
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/list...&rating=top

and especially theese:
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/list...=Ingo+van+Thiel
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/list...erserker+Jerker
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/list...r=Great+Emperor

____________________________________________________________


QUOTE (Zell @ Jul 7 2006, 04:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
....I'm gunna kill you....
QUOTE (Zell @ Jul 7 2006, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...correction...I'm going to kill all of you starcraft haters....
And it's people like that that makes me wonder how the sc community is... if the majority is like that... I'm glad I don't play the game...

#52
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^_^ but SC was out before that.. and its probably due its custom map popularity that map a map editor was even included in aoe2

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#53
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sc may have been of huge importance to RTS gaming, introducing (maybe) a lot of things used in other games... But I, and a lot of other people, just don't enjoy sc as much as other games... I have full respect for people who like sc and play sc, but I really wish a lot of sc players could stop beeing jerks... I want to make two things clear:
1. Starcraft isn't the best game ever.
2. Stop calling other people n00b just because they don't play sc, it makes even more people dislike the game...

and Nemesis, you're one of those 3-4 people I mentioned in my other post...

#54
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Man SC:BW is the dogs bollox

I mean come on would any of you love a game to be sad enough to spend an hour or so writing almost half a page about the BASICS of a game?

Nemesis was sad enough to do that. Na not really mate ^^ the game rocks so much that you gotta defend it with your all icon_wink.gif

I've played C&C aswell as other RTS games such as Total Annihalation and Age of Empires, sure they are also great games to play, but there is an ora about SC:BW that keeps you wanting more, striving to perfection.

I must now say i'm more or less addicted to SC:BW now and obviously bias towards it, but admittedly i had the same opinion as most of you guys insulting the game.

Basically reason why you hate it is because it sucks to be a noob, and no-one on this forum who is better than me on SC:BW would be able to find it in them to insult any aspect of the game.

Practice SC:BW guys, be good at it, and see it's real beauty.
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#55
ShiZ

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I wouldn't expect everyone to jump on and enjoy SC nowadays, it is getting a bit old (not saying that's bad). Tbh you can't really expect a new person to appreciate SC for what it is now, there's all other games out etc.. I guess it's kinda like 1.6, all the old players stick with it, newer ones are looking at the newer games.

#56
SliCk.cF-

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I suppose you have a point but it's hard to enjoy a game if you suck at it wouldn't you agree?
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#57
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you cant suck at ums ^_^

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#58
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Thats not true! I remember owning up Evolves because newbs would come in and not make the right built. Hehe I haven't p;ayed SC UMS in such a long time.

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"Why do people feel such fierce loyalty to a corporation? You can rest assured the corporation doesn't feel the same level of loyalty towards you."

#59
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QUOTE (hackerwacker @ Jul 7 2006, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My opinion of why starcraft is so popular is because of its 'elite' crowd gamers. EVERYBODY want to be the next Boxer.

Many starcraft players have been playing the game for years; perfecting every part of their B.O. and parcticing for hours and hours to increase their micro and apm to an amazing level. But what would happen if any of these top Starcraft players tried playing another game, such as Dawn of War? I garuntee you they would get their ass kicked

TBH they are afraid to move on from their precious game and lose their elite status. They are afraid that the 'noobs' they pwned on battlenet last night will school them in any game of C&C.

there are much better games out there than starcraft.
thanks for that
i welcome you to try.


Actually, I've played starcraft for about 7-8 yrs now I think. Around since it came out. I'll say it again: it's equivilent to chess in the video gaming world. The game is dynamic, always changing in what people use as common strategies/tactics and the maps also alter how people play.

For me personally, I played lots of other games before starcraft, mostly console games. And I am always very good at any game I play - doesn't matter the genre. Old school Bond, Perfect Dark, Mario Kart, Super smash brothers, mega man, final fantasy, street fighter, mortal kombat, Halo, Halo2, soon to be Halo3, battle tanks, tony halks pro skater 1-3, pokemon for the gameboys, grand theft auto, Driver, Ridge Racer (love the drifting ;/), minesweeper, pinball, Galaxa (YAH GALAXA!), pac-man, Twisted Metal, Wave Racer, Zelda: A Link To the Past, Zelda: Ocarina of Time (which I don't even own and should probably purchase), Diablo 2: LOD, Guild Wars (Had to stop playing because it's so addictive lol), and etc.

Don't diss starcraft simply because you have little experience with it. It's a difficult game because not only are does a player have to master keyboard mechanics to be able to do what they want but it's a game where a player's mental capabilities are more important than anything at the higher levels.

And yes, it's tough to master the mechanics to the point that you can just think about, "I need to send these units to this part of the map so I can flank in about 15 seconds," but once they're done you can pretty much think something and then make it happen on the screen.

And most importantly the game is still FUN!
-Fritobag

edit: I'm not a brit...wtf is a dog's bollox? Is that it's bumhole?!
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin.
I offer SC2 coaching for $25/hr, msg if interested :)

#60
Nemesis.cF-

Nemesis.cF-
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frito u gonna join .cF- or w00t nucka!? if not i may just have to note the fact you are an idiot...

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