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Weapons of Mass Destruction

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#21
evol262

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Ah, IIRC, almost all of these were artillery rounds which were prepped for biological/chemical agents (proper sealing and whatnot) but with no WMDs to load them.
QUOTE (piggyspizza @ Jun 22 2006, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ok hmm lets see lets look what happend when there we didnt find WOMD in iraq oh we had a few angry moms with carboard signs yah..... that made a big difference basicly our government and every other governemt can do what ever the fuck they want honestly if they do something bad what are you going to do? you try any thing to drastict they send the CIA after you and the CIA is basicly the KGB so basicly were all bitches and the president is pimp and his CIA is his pimp cane that he hits us with if we dont comply

You don't even really know what the CIA does, do you?
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#22
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QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol, what do you mean not the weapons used "as his basis"?


Weapons of "mass destruction." Most of these weapons would be useless or terribly ineffective due to their age and lack of maintenance, this does nothing to show that Saddam had a WMD program actively running at the time of our invasion; another claim by Bush, and no one disputes that these weapons ever existed. Everyone, both Democrats and Republicans, knew that Saddam posessed and used chemical weapons both on his people and during the Iraq-Iran war. This was never a point of contention, so I don't see what the declassification of this document is hoping to achieve.

#23
The Alu

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Its all about the oil.. all about the oil
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QUOTE(Orky @ Mar 22 2006, 10:42 PM) View Post

Ahh! Communist! =P

#24
ST1DinOH

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ok time for some logic in this thread...

for starters the whole "weapons of mass destruction" angle has been so overdramatised by the left it's sickening. this is becoming another one of thier pathetic rally cries to thier moronic base in a futile attempt to rally support. see...."selected not elected". WMD's discovery and elimination was a hopefull side effect of taking saddam out, but this was in no way shape or form the reason we went there.

did we belive he had them....yes

did he.......no

so everyone who said he had them and thats one of the reasons we should go take him out.....well that makes them horrible liers right???

ok fine, then kerry, clinton, shumer, pilliocy, boxer, kennedy, ect...ect... they all lied too. because they were all under the exact same assumtion given to us by british intell. which in fact, so far, has turned out to be wrong.

the reason the whole world believed saddam had these weapons????

1. he claimed he had them
2. he had them before (gassed the kurds)
3. he wouldn't allow inspectors to get check for any WMD's, and when he did he was playing games with them.
4. he basicly told the whole world to fuck off anytime we told him he wasn't allowed to posses any

this latest "find" doesn't ammount to much. it's not like we found huge stockpiles of weaponised anthrax or nukes or anything. but here's the problem with this whole situation, we went because saddam violated 17 un resolutions. the entire "invasion" was clearly spelled out for everyone and agreed to by the un. he violated the first 16, and finaly we (the un) had enuff. so we gave him one last chance.....he told us to fuck off. so the us puts together a coalition of multiple nations to go and take him out.

after 3 months of stalling from the french and the germans, we finaly get the approval from the un to go take this cocksucker out.

BTW for the record.....the only reason france and germany stalled us out, is because they were proffiting off saddam's oil. (see oil for food scandall). both france and germany had a great customer in saddam. they were making fat proffit of the oil coming out of iraq, and once saddam was out of power, so was thier contract. hence the stalling.

so yeah back to the point....

so the un says go get him out, we amass a coalition of forces from many countries in the un, and we go in to get him out of power.

ok so i've said this multiple times here before but i think it's a good point and it needs to be said...

if you're a drug dealer and the local sherrif calls you one day and says "hey...drug dealer....yeah we know your selling drugs and we are stopping by in about 3 months to raid your house...click" i'd immagine in that 3 months you'd find the time to sell all your drugs right? well there have been multiple reports of massive cargo movements leading up to the invasion. the syrian government has been working with the un and has basicly all but come out and said that saddam burried a bunch of shit in the syrian desert.

so anyway what i'm saying is despite the fact that this entire argument is a bunch of stupid leftist pot stirring, it's still possible that saddam did indeed have something, probably not nukes, but most definatley weaponised anthrax, or serin gas. lets not forget about "chemical ali" one of the most diabolical (see smart) germ/chemical warfare experts in the world working for him. it's not like he was paying the dude to kick back and make smoke bombs for him. i'm quite sure saddam had some nasty shit going on but we'll probably never be able to prove it.

in short this latest "proof" of wmd is a bunch of bullshit. old pre-desert storm crap isn't exactly what we were hoping to find whiel we were there. but again i think it's important we all understand that we didn't go there to find WMD in the first place. we went in to take him out of power because he broke the rules, basicly violated his probation.

it's like if you are driving west to get to cali, you might as well stop in vegas and hit the slots or some strip clubs whiel you're passing through. sure it would have been nice to find a bunch of nukes and say "see i told ya so" blah blah blah.....but in all reality....you never would have heard a word about it. the only reason this is even talked about by the antique media is because we haven't found anything yet.

this entire "war on terrorism" is just that....a war on terror. and saddam was one of the people out there stirring up the pot and funding the whole radical islamic movement in the middle east. he sponsored terrorist cells, provided them with weapons and training camps, ect... so naturaly he became target #2 on the list. there is a lot of work to do, and most of the inteligent in the world understand that these radical jihadists need to be contained. post 9-11 we've seen these people (islamo nut jobs) attack multiple countries killing many innocent people along the way. london, madrid, the riots in france, the attempts in canada (luckily theye were stopped)....these people have declared a war on everyone that doesn't practice thier religion. if you aren't a head cutter, they want to cut off your head. so they are at war with you. and they need to be stopped.

yes yes it wasn't saddam that flew planes on 9-11....no shit. but this is 2 completely different issues. we went after ossama because of the links to the 9-11 attacks, which has set off this worldwide crusade against islamic jihadism. this has been a long time comming, and should have been undertaken years ago by the first bush possibly, but especially by clinton. unfortunatley the worlds governments have done nothing to stop this invasion of throat cutters, and now we've kinda reached a point where it's become a necessity to stop them before things get more out of hand then they are already.

for thoes who will no doubt be replying to this post with the usuall bullshit, keep in mind i've done my best to be civil and refrain from flying off the handle as i usually do when discussing this tedious shit. it seems like the same shit gets brought up time and time again so i just tried to combine everything into one post to save everyone some time

now i'll just get my rebuttals to your objections out of the way

we went for oil.....
haven't gotten a drop yet, all oil is in controll of the citizens of iraq

you should go after ossama first.....
tried that, haven't found him yet, this came up in the mean time

bush is just getting him back for trying to kill his dad....
possibly but thats besides the point, the man violated countless nubers of un violations. he made agreements with us and brokew all of them. it was clearly spelled out what would happen if he broke thoese agreements, and what you see is what he agreed to

were not making any progress....
sorry wrong, this is an unfortunate side effect of lack of information. we are making great progress over there. the government is in the hands of the iraqui people, they have a legitamate democracy, they have a real police force, no more rape/torture/murder rooms, the infrastucture of iraq is being restored daily...we've built countless roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, ect....

yeah but you had to fix all that because you screwed it up....
it's called a war, at least we are staying this time to clean up our mess

you work for/are a slave to the fox news channel....
on the contrary, most if not all liberals are just acustom to getting thier news with a liberal twist. the big/antique media that has ran this country for so long is unwraveling. as evident by things like the whole dan blather dibocle. if there is no slant then there wouldn't be such a demand for talk radio and fox news. places like this are a good source of a "the other side" of the news. if fox and talk radio seem slanted to the right...it's because they are. they are doing the opposite of what everyone else does, they tell the news from a republican standpoint vs a democrat one. the only reason so many people like talk radio and the fox news channel is so they can get the other side of the story. it's refreshing to hear the other side of the argument for once, and it's got the libs all pissed off that someone finaly is telling the other side of the story.

bush is behind 9-11, i'm an alex jones fan boy and i have michale moores baby batter on my chin.....
grow up

in closing i'd just like to add my new favorite bumper sticker

"vote democrat....it's easier than working"

#25
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^good stuff. only problem, i dont think most the peeps in here have the attention span to actually read that lol

#26
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Goddamn, learn to get to the point. Gigantic threads impress no one unless there is something meaningful in them. Anyway, claim that wmd's were not the reason for going to Iraq all you want, but you have to admit that Dubya and his cowboys harped on them and talked about them a HELL of a lot. Surely it was a bigger deal than just "getting them along the way". Hey check it out, I stuck to the point (wmd's) without feeling the need to even discuss conservatism. Try it next time.

#27
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
^good stuff. only problem, i dont think most the peeps in here have the attention span to actually read that lol


thanks man....i was bored at work so it gave me something to do, had to get some of that off my chest. just so tired of all this bullshit from ignorant or uninformed people. i realalise that wmd's were talked about a lot pre-invasion but everyone thought saddam had them, not just bush and his evil army of ice wall gaurdian feeding geneticly engineered penguins. (flatearthsociety.org)

QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
blah blah blah


fixed

#28
Muad'dib

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QUOTE (st1dinoh @ Jun 22 2006, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
fixed


Aw, how cute. Is that a little bit of wit you're showing? I'm so proud of you!

#29
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lol i read ur whole post St1dinoh ... very interesting lol. I guess they had it coming 4 em but USA r still n00bs icon_razz.gif
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#30
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QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Goddamn, learn to get to the point. Gigantic threads impress no one unless there is something meaningful in them. Anyway, claim that wmd's were not the reason for going to Iraq all you want, but you have to admit that Dubya and his cowboys harped on them and talked about them a HELL of a lot.

i direct you to bush's ultimatum speech

heres a nice lil graphic as well (yeah, i try)


#31
ST1DinOH

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QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...


too long didn't read

QUOTE (Kaos Pwnage @ Jun 22 2006, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol i read ur whole post St1dinoh ... very interesting lol. I guess they had it coming 4 em but USA r still n00bs icon_razz.gif


yeah he did have it coming. this whole thing does suck, i wish we didn't have to even mess with all this shit but unfortunatley we are like the world police or something. kinda an unfortunate side effect of being a world superpower.

QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i direct you to bush's ultimatum speech

heres a nice lil graphic as well (yeah, i try)
http://home.comcast.net/~hchea1000/reasons_for_iraq_war.jpg


damn....nice work confrico....

it's amazing how short people's memory is. chapa huh...chappaquiiii....chapaquiiidaaaa....i forget

#32
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QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i direct you to bush's ultimatum speech

heres a nice lil graphic as well (yeah, i try)
http://home.comcast.net/~hchea1000/reasons_for_iraq_war.jpg


Uhhh, thanks for proving my point? My point being that wmd's were a bigger deal than st1 has been saying. Handsome looking chart you got there as well. Nice job.

#33
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#35
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Man I love your sig. Hoping for spaceballs 2 sometime this century.

#36
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QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Uhhh, thanks for proving my point? My point being that wmd's were a bigger deal than st1 has been saying. Handsome looking chart you got there as well. Nice job.

thanks for the kudos, that pic's pretty old anyway icon_lol.gif

well, half of the ultimatum speech was about saddam's defiance of the UN regarding WMD, and half the speech was about advancing peace to the region and thus the world:

1. the first half of the speech - the subject may be WMD, but there is a larger point in there if you look outside the box. it was about the past 12 troublesome years. it was about saddam and his potential for more dangerous defiant acts. there is no way for a stable mideast - and world for that matter - with a despot like saddam in power.

2. the second half of the speech - he ties the above into the GWOT. liberating iraq's people, getting rid of the menace that was saddam, and bringing peace and stability to the region... that part speaks for itself. gone will be saddam's support for terror groups. regional/world stability depends on taking out saddam and initiating the big bang that would make the iraqi people "prosperous and free"..... he says: "In free Iraq there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms." then he says: "The United States with other countries will work to advance liberty and peace in that region. Our goal will not be achieved overnight, but it can come over time. The power and appeal of human liberty is felt in every life and every land, and the greatest power of freedom is to overcome hatred and violence, and turn the creative gifts of men and women to the pursuits of peace. That is the future we choose."

that quote above may sound shallowly compassionate and touchy-feely but that was the specific grand vision for going into iraq, and it's a damn good one. it involved freedom, economic freedoms especially, which would lead to greater peace. it would improve the whole world, not just iraq. it involved looking at the bigger picture. so that the benefits of the war would be greater and last much longer than alot of the critics have been able to imagine.

#37
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QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that quote above may sound shallowly compassionate and touchy-feely but that was the specific grand vision for going into iraq, and it's a damn good one. it involved freedom, economic freedoms especially, which would lead to greater peace. it would improve the whole world, not just iraq. it involved looking at the bigger picture. so that the benefits of the war would be greater and last much longer than alot of the critics have been able to imagine.


Sigh, I really hate to digress because the point of this thread was wmd's. I'll keep it simple. I dont buy that touchy-feely "liberate iraq and establish freedom" bullshit for a second. There are so many other regions of the world where the people were as or more oppresed than those of Iraq. A few off the top of my head, North Korea, Congo, SAUDI ARABIA. So you're gonna tell me that the number one reason we risked the lives of thousands of American soldiers was to go on a little hero crusade out of the goodness of our hearts? Please.

#38
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QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sigh, I really hate to digress because the point of this thread was wmd's. I'll keep it simple. I dont buy that touchy-feely "liberate iraq and establish freedom" bullshit for a second. There are so many other regions of the world where the people were as or more oppresed than those of Iraq. A few off the top of my head, North Korea, Congo, SAUDI ARABIA. So you're gonna tell me that the number one reason we risked the lives of thousands of American soldiers was to go on a little hero crusade out of the goodness of our hearts? Please.

ur still not understanding the larger point. the point WASNT that it was from the goodness of our hearts. it WASN'T the touchy feely stuff. the point is that we went into iraq because saddam being in power prevented mideast peace. the ensuing security problems there are, for example, exported to OUR own cities in the form of terrorism. so the iraq mission ties into the GWOT.

like alot of people, you say that we should go into africa or north korea or saudis. dont worry. we probably will. it's just that saddam was a case of failed diplomacy, he had been defiant, and he had a history of aggression. we just realized how important it was to take people like him out of power when 9/11 happened. again, we judged the saddam situation as it related to the course of the GWOT... who should we engage right now?... who should we save for later? etc.

#39
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QUOTE (confrico @ Jun 22 2006, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ur still not understanding the larger point. the point WASNT that it was from the goodness of our hearts. it WASN'T the touchy feely stuff. the point is that we went into iraq because saddam being in power prevented mideast peace. the ensuing security problems there are, for example, exported to OUR own cities in the form of terrorism. so the iraq mission ties into the GWOT.

like alot of people, you say that we should go into africa or north korea or saudis. dont worry. we probably will. it's just that saddam was a case of failed diplomacy, he had been defiant, and he had a history of aggression. we just realized how important it was to take people like him out of power when 9/11 happened. again, we judged the saddam situation as it related to the course of the GWOT... who should we engage right now?... who should we save for later? etc.


Trust me, you want peace in the Middle East, you go for Saudi Arabia. No other country in the Middle East promotes or harbors as much terrorism as Saudi Arabia. Only Syria comes close. Problem is, we are too dependent on Saudi oil to do absolutely anything about it. Thats not just a republican jab either. It was actually FDR, greatest president we've had, who started up relations with the Saudis. Its been a bi-partisan problem ever since.

#40
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QUOTE (Muad'dib @ Jun 22 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trust me, you want peace in the Middle East, you go for Saudi Arabia. No other country in the Middle East promotes or harbors as much terrorism as Saudi Arabia. Only Syria comes close. Problem is, we are too dependent on Saudi oil to do absolutely anything about it. Thats not just a republican jab either. It was actually FDR, greatest president we've had, who started up relations with the Saudis. Its been a bi-partisan problem ever since.

if we're not in saudi right now, it's anything but oil. at least not directly. the US gets almost none of it. mideast oil goes to the rest of the world, especially asia right now.

you already know the reasons we're in iraq. it would bring freedom and it would ripple across the mideast, instead of saddam's negative influence rippling across the mideast. an extention of that would be that the world is developing iraq right now into an economically viable nation with all the security/rules/fdi it needs so that ripple could happen.




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