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Starcraft & Control Groups

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#1
ItWasntMe62687

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Well I'm pretty much a big noob at Starcraft, not settling on a race yet. My first main race was terran, then it was protoss, then it was zerg, and now its back to terran. And I need tips on how to assign control groups/locations. I know the best way is your own way, but I need something to get started with. Questions I need answered:

1. What units you choose in your control group. (Vults + Tanks, Vults only, or Tanks only)
2. How many units in your control group. (12, 8, 4, etc.)
3. Where to group spellcasters. (#5, #6, etc.)
4. How many #'s you should devote to buildings.
5. How many #'s you should devote to Comsat.
6. How to group M&M. (Marines/Medics in one group; Marines in one group, Medics in another)
7. How to group Tanks. (4 Tanks in a group, pushing each group fowards)
8. What to use F2-F4 on.

My current hotkeys are this:

1. Tanks
2. Tanks
3. Tanks
4. Vults
5. Vults
6. Gollies/Tanks
7. Gollies/Tanks
8. Gollies/Tanks
9. Comsat
0. Comsat

F2. Main Base
F3. Choke
F4. Nat Base

Also, against zerg, I need micro tips for M&M. For example, seleciting 10 Rines and 2 Medics in the same group. If you attack move, the medics will run up like dumbasses and no heal the rines like they are supposed to. I think what you are supposed to do is hotkey 12 rines in one group and 2-3 medics in another. 1 (Mariens), Stim, Attack-move; 2 (Medics), Stop.

I have a lot of other questions and I will post them here as I think of them.

Thanks in advance..

#2
TehMicro

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All of that (what button to hotkey) is personal preference. You're most likely going to get your ass handed to you by trying to acustom yourself to someone else's playing style. Here's mostly my usage.

For M&M against Zerg, For every 2 or 3 Rines, you should have 1 Medic. Lings are close combat fighters, and Marines are ranged. Use this to an advantage. Fire onto a couple Lings, and then run off alittle. Fire again, and run off alittle. The medics will heal if the Lings manage a slash or two on a couple Rines.

1. What units you choose in your control group. (Vults + Tanks, Vults only, or Tanks only)
Lurkers and Lings don't group together well, because you have to have only the Lurkers select to Burrow. Like if you're using Hydraisks and Zerglings, which both have no ability (Lurker Aspect for Hydra, but we're saying early game when you don't have it) then Hotkey them. If you're using a Ling and Lurker rush, Hotkey your Lurkers to their own key so you can easily just hotkey over, and Burrow instead of chasing after them with the mouse to ctrl click.

2. How many units in your control group. (12, 8, 4, etc.)

12 max. You should never have a group of like 4 creatures. If you do, these are easily selectable and should not even be hotkeyed. When you're in the middle of a huge battle, and need to select 12 creatures, or units hotkeys would be fast. However selecting four is easier and leaves hotkeys open for bigger attack forces.

3. Where to group spellcasters. (#5, #6, etc.)
Closes your fingers can reach. These need to be executed fast so that the spells are casted right away. Nothing like being rushed and stumbling to find the key to Maelstorm them.

4. How many #'s you should devote to buildings.

2; Your unit production site(s) and Your command center(s)

5. How many #'s you should devote to Comsat.
1 for each oomsat center you have.

6. How to group M&M. (Marines/Medics in one group; Marines in one group, Medics in another)

Medics in one group, and Marines in another. When moving them, just select them all (if you can) and move them around. When you need to Stimpack, hotkey or ctrl click your Marines and T. To heal, hotkey or ctrl click Medics and hit E.

7. How to group Tanks. (4 Tanks in a group, pushing each group fowards)
Put them all in one group. When you move them toward the enemy base, as they are moving, select 3 of them, send them right, select 3, send them left, select 3, Hold position, then hotkey them all and switch them to siege mode.

8. What to use F2-F4 on.
Chokepoints and important parts of the map.

By the way - I'm not Nem, Frito, or Shiz.. So you don't have to take my word on it. Just offering my snipplet of Advice. Respect that I took my time to write this and please don't reply "You're not [insert name here], are you?"

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#3
ShiZ

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Just like to say before I start, that I'm not a Terran player. Maybe I can still give you some ideas.

QUOTE (ItWasntMe62687 @ Jun 14 2006, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. What units you choose in your control group. (Vults + Tanks, Vults only, or Tanks only)
2. How many units in your control group. (12, 8, 4, etc.)
3. Where to group spellcasters. (#5, #6, etc.)
4. How many #'s you should devote to buildings.
5. How many #'s you should devote to Comsat.
6. How to group M&M. (Marines/Medics in one group; Marines in one group, Medics in another)
7. How to group Tanks. (4 Tanks in a group, pushing each group fowards)
8. What to use F2-F4 on.


1. I'm sure it would help to try to keep vults only, same with tanks. There are times when you'll need to plant mines fast, or seige asap. By having vulture only groups for example, this would be easier.
2. Late game, or whatever part of the game you have many units, You pretty much have to go 12units. Though, otherwise you might want to hotkey specific units to a group. Like in #1, say you have 4 tanks, 12 vults. As you build up tanks just add them to that group, unless you want to have 2 groups, like if you are attacking from 2 sides or something.
3. Early game, maybe they can have their own groups, but I know for P, I used to just mix it up, just had to make sure I was able to stop them from going futher, and use them.
4. Well, as with every question here, it is really up to personal experience. I know that I hotkey my gates early game, but later the game goes on, I don't add more, but take some away for units etc when needed.
5. All I have to say is that if you want, keep a couple, and just cycle through them. By this I mean, lets say you have 4 comsat, you allocate 2 hotkeys for them. After depleting all of the energy in one or both, you then hotkey the other ones that are full of energy. Maybe getting some ideas of T players might be better here.
6. Yeah, I'd keep marines in one group and medics in the other. Seems extremely important for the T to stim sometimes, don't want to hinder that stim because you have medics in the group icon_smile.gif.
7. Hm, TvT you want to try and make a line, so the other player can't advance on you. TvZ/P pretty much seems like the terran wants to group tanks up. By that I don't mean stacked on top of each other, but relatively close to each other, in a group say. I don't really have much experience on this though.
8. I don't really use this much, someone else might be able to help you here icon_smile.gif. Btw, in vods I notice pro players atleast hotkey one view on their main.

QUOTE (ItWasntMe62687 @ Jun 14 2006, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, against zerg, I need micro tips for M&M. For example, seleciting 10 Rines and 2 Medics in the same group. If you attack move, the medics will run up like dumbasses and no heal the rines like they are supposed to. I think what you are supposed to do is hotkey 12 rines in one group and 2-3 medics in another. 1 (Mariens), Stim, Attack-move; 2 (Medics), Stop.


Yeah, that sounds right. If you wanted, you could also just set the medics to follow the marines, might work icon_smile.gif.

QUOTE (ItWasntMe62687 @ Jun 14 2006, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a lot of other questions and I will post them here as I think of them.


There are quite a few SC players here, I'm sure they'll be willing to help, if they can icon_smile.gif.

#4
Fritobag

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Good stuff guys.

Eh, first off make sure you actually wanna play terran, zerg, or toss. DECIDE NOW ;/

Hotkeying Styles
No matter which race there are, in my opinion, three distinct styles of hotkeying:

1. "Hotkey Unit Producing Buildings Style"
2. "Hotkey Mostly Units Style"
3. "Hotkey Units and 'Certain' Buildings Style"

So choose the one you fit into. I'll describe the three for ya:

1. "Hotkeying Mostly Buildings"
If you go this route you'll end up with most of your hotkeys as your factories, gateways, barracks, or whatever other unit producing buildings you have. This style is one that allows you to macro very well WHILE MICROING your troops. You can move your army, dropships, etc. and be looking on that screen while clicking through 1234567 etc. which allows you to constantly produce from buildings. In my opinion, people tend to rely on their micro a lot to gain them advantages enough so that they basically have already "pre-protected" expansions due to the harrassment they put on opponents. Their attention is focused on the screen where the person needs to micro. It makes it relatively easy to expand.
The major downsides to this style are that you may forget to build supply depots if you SOLELY rely on the hotkeys - unless of course you hotkey an scv for that specific purpose. Also, it seems you don't actually "watch" your base that often due to use of the building hotkeys. Not like you should have your attention in one place anyways but those are possible downsides.

2. "Hotkeying Mostly Units Style"
With this style, you will most likely only hotkey your comsats if you're terran as your building hotkeys. 1234567890 will all be totally devoted to unit hotkeys. And to tell the truth, I have never played this style or seen that many players at a high level play this style. Either way, you would most likely hotkey a specific worker for supply building, a worker in the mineral line to get back to your main base, and 1-5 will be attacking units. 6-0 will be specific units such as a shuttle with reavers, an observer, or a scouting unit. I'd say this is the least effective way to hotkey, and very very very few people play like this and achieve a high level of gameplay. It's just too difficult.

3. "Hotkeying Units and 'Certain Buildings' Style"

This is the MOST used hotkeying style. This is the style I use also. It's pretty versatile but requires the user to be able to keep track of a lot of things off screen - in other words you're actually mentally reminding yourself of many things. You won't hotkey that many (if any) unit producing buildings, which means you will have to have a hotkey to your starting building to get back to your base and hotkey expansions to get back to those screens easily. And you will have to already have fast handspeed in order to click through all of your gateways/factories quickly. Usually a player will use hotkeys for units 1-4. The buildings the player hotkeys will be 5-0. A player must have good timing on when to click back to his main base to keep his production going and also must be able to keep track of where his scouting workers are, where he is positioniong his unit groups 1-4. It's probably the easiest of the three to use, but tough to master.

It's preference on whichever style you have or take. These are just basic guidelines and styles that I believe most players fit into. If you're going to play terran, I would actually suggest aiming for style #1 - the hotkeying of your factories style. This way you are constantly managing tank pushes/mines and scouting while being able to produce at the same time. But it is the hardest style to master.

As for your current set up, it seems to be the style #2 - hotkeying mostly units. I think you need to ask yourself if you cannot handle style#1 and go for style#3 - hotkeying units and buildings. It'll be the most effective for you, especially if you want to switch off to another race in the future.

Try hotkeying at least your starting CC to 5 or 6 and your units 1-4. Depending on how large your hand is you may be able to hotkey units on number s1-6 and start off with your CC as 7. It all depends, and is all preference. Play a few relaxing games against a computer and let the game lengthen to find out what you like the best.

If you ever need to try something out or practice playing against a computer or multiple computers is ALWAYS the best option. Some arrogant people think that it's no practice but it actually is good because you aren't disturbed, can try out efficient new build orders or patterns, and can practice your macro without being harrassed. For example, when I wanted to try out for the first time a Reaver/Sair/Dweb strategy for pvz I played against 5 zerg computers on an island map to get used to the micro of it. I then proceeded to win the first pgt game I ever played with the same strategy.

Just do what you like!

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#5
ItWasntMe62687

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icon_sad.gif Thanks for your replys guys, but I still need some more help. I used to use the 1234567890 All factories style, but I thought that was what noobs used until Nemesis said he did that in another thread icon_rolleyes.gif ....so I guess I'll start to use that style again, as it is the easiest for me. If I use that style, I have no clue how to mass move units. I used to just select them group by group and attack-move to a choke. I started using Style #2 because of my Zerg playing icon_sad.gif ...I tryto use F2-F4, but most of the time I think its just faster to move around on the minimap with the mouse. Does anyone know how I can force myself to start using each hotkey? Also, do you guys use the arrow keys to move around the map?? icon_sad.gif icon_sad.gif i'm such a noob icon_sad.gif

#6
ShiZ

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Uh, well all I can say, is that it is preference. To me, it'd seem a bit weird to have no hotkeys allocated for units, but then again, that's just me. Whatever works for you, go for it.

Yeah, I don't really use F2-4 hotkeys either. If it doesn't feel comfortable and isn't working out, then don't worry about it.

I'm pretty sure it was boxer that uses the arrow keys ^^. (Might have been NaDa.. think it was boxer anyway.. icon_razz.gif)

#7
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Intriguing
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QUOTE(Orky @ Mar 22 2006, 10:42 PM) View Post

Ahh! Communist! =P

#8
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This may sound n00b of me, but I did not know you could use the F2,F3 and F4 keys as hotkeys.

I wish they let you use the numpad for hotkeys, cause you could use rows of significant things easily.
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#9
ShiZ

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QUOTE (OSDB @ Jun 16 2006, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This may sound n00b of me, but I did not know you could use the F2,F3 and F4 keys as hotkeys.

I wish they let you use the numpad for hotkeys, cause you could use rows of significant things easily.


Yeah, I wouldn't worry about not knowing of the F2-4 hotkeys.. don't really seem to play a major role like the normal number hotkeys.. for me atleast.

#10
Nemesis.cF-

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#11
Fritobag

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QUOTE (ItWasntMe62687 @ Jun 15 2006, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, do you guys use the arrow keys to move around the map??


That is how I started out playing online. I used the arrow keys to move around because it felt much smoother and was faster. But, eventually I switched to mostly double clicking unit groups, mass left clickin the mini map when needed, double clicking buildings, and raising the mouse sensitivity and moving the screen with the mouse. It's much faster without the arrow keys. Although, I'm sure there are times when you may want to use the arrow keys.
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#12
Nemesis.cF-

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QUOTE (Fritobag @ Jun 16 2006, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is how I started out playing online. I used the arrow keys to move around because it felt much smoother and was faster. But, eventually I switched to mostly double clicking unit groups, mass left clickin the mini map when needed, double clicking buildings, and raising the mouse sensitivity and moving the screen with the mouse. It's much faster without the arrow keys. Although, I'm sure there are times when you may want to use the arrow keys.


^_^ i still use the cursor keys to view the map.. im trying to learn to use it less though, as it stops me from doing all the ctrl+1 stuff ^_^.

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#13
Fritobag

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QUOTE (Nemesis.cF- @ Jun 16 2006, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
^_^ i still use the cursor keys to view the map.. im trying to learn to use it less though, as it stops me from doing all the ctrl+1 stuff ^_^.


Exactly.
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#14
Zell

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Don't use control groups...only use it for when your doing sometihng special or using it to keep track of ur spell casters such as ht or defilers becuz u will only have 1 or 2 in a big mass of like 20 units+.

For ur first race, choose one which u feel comfortable playing. For me, I kinda started with terran, went to toss, then learned all. Now I mastered toss and yeah basically pick one that u feel comfortable with.

QUOTE (Fritobag @ Jun 16 2006, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is how I started out playing online. I used the arrow keys to move around because it felt much smoother and was faster. But, eventually I switched to mostly double clicking unit groups, mass left clickin the mini map when needed, double clicking buildings, and raising the mouse sensitivity and moving the screen with the mouse. It's much faster without the arrow keys. Although, I'm sure there are times when you may want to use the arrow keys.


I don't use cursor keys becuz what I do is (if early game) I just hotkey maybe like a group of z's that I'm sending or w/e and then I use spacebar to switch my screen back to my main base when an scv spawns or I just click that spot on the minimap. I actually find it easier attack moving on the minimap, for example grabbing some goons and atk moving by a+clicking on the spot on the minimap where an opponents base is.

#15
ItWasntMe62687

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More Questions:

How do you mass move units if you use 1234567890 on buildings?
Should you use 2-3 SCV's to build Supply Depots when you are massing Vultures?

#16
ShiZ

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If you have assigned all your hotkeys to buildings, I don't think there is any other way to mass move units then to do the good ol' drag mouse. ctrl + click unit would also help in some situations too I guess.

Use however many SCV's it takes. Really depends on how many xpo's you have though, no point having it like 50/150 without being attacked or anything, spending the money on SDs rather then vults.. =\.

#17
Fritobag

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QUOTE (Zell @ Jun 17 2006, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually find it easier attack moving on the minimap, for example grabbing some goons and atk moving by a+clicking on the spot on the minimap where an opponents base is.


Yes, that's a good mechanic no one has mentioned. I use that also ;/ I think every high level player does. Especially when using/resetting rally points / waypoints. The minimap is one of the quickest ways to move the screen around so don't forget it's there.
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#18
Garamiah

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QUOTE (TehMicro @ Jun 14 2006, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
By the way - I'm not Nem, Frito, or Shiz.. So you don't have to take my word on it. Just offering my snipplet of Advice. Respect that I took my time to write this and please don't reply "You're not [insert name here], are you?"

/TehMicro/

IMO, you are just as helpful and informative as any other starcraft pro on these forums
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QUOTE (Plasmic Fury @ Jul 11 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was in the ocean and I had a frizbee, and some 8/10's were like THROW IT TO US and I just pretended I didnt hear them and swam quickly back to beach.


#19
Fritobag

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Everyone is their own person, has their own opinions, their own style and take on things. All takes are welcome! That's how you learn. Any advice and time given is good stuff! Besides, if it were all from one person's or two person's point of views then there is no variation and no variance. For example, tehmicro may explain something his own way that someone finds helpful and easy to understand while they may think that my stuff is jibberish! vica versa, etc. etc! lol

Everyone has a different take on things.

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#20
ItWasntMe62687

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Frito & Nemesis FTW!!




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