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Has Gaming Lost Its 'edge'?

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#1
oldSkool

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An interesting comment made in another thread:

QUOTE (gillytg @ Feb 25 2012, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
gaming sure has changed, so much more mainstream now...


Is gaming really all that more mainstream?
Or is it just more of the same like with youtube - technology becoming more accessible, so people are getting involved in things that they once couldn't afford before?

Mobile 'gaming platforms' definitely helped with this. Though I know there's been discussions about games becoming too predictable and too 'easy', largely (I feel) because developers are trying to push the multiplayer aspect over the main campaign / storyline.

If it is too mainstream, how does one distinguish themselves as a gamer compared to little johnny down the road who plays CoD 12 hours a day?
One day, when you're old enough - I'll tell you how I fought in the bit wars...

#2
Spowis

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QUOTE
Is gaming really all that more mainstream?


Yes.

QUOTE
If it is too mainstream, how does one distinguish themselves as a gamer compared to little johnny down the road who plays CoD 12 hours a day?


You play CoD for 1 hour a day and still kick his ass.

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#3
The_Con-Sept

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I think the main issue is that, as we get older, we lose touch with our inner child.

I know that opening doesn't make sense but do you remember coming home from school and slapping that cartridge into the slot? Or throwing your controller at the wall or biting it? Even better with the SNES... When you got mad at Mega Man 7, you would hit that popper button so hard that you made it a carnival game? Just to see if you could hit the ceiling with the cartridge?

A lot of gamers are over the age of 18 now. We do have new people amongst us. But I, myself, don't have enough TIME in my days to play games anymore. Which the younger group has all the time in the world to play. I bought a PS Vita and I suddenly have Gaming ADD now. I get half way through 1 game and I buy another. It's bad enough that I am a cab driver because between fares I hunker down and start playing. When I get home I go to bed. I think that is why games have become less of a challenge and almost every game feels the same no matter what it is.






Now... To veer way off the fucking track for a half hour....






I just like to see the ending to a video game. Back then it didn't matter if we missed the entire other half of Symphony of the Night, or didn't get all playable characters in FFVII. In fact that was a real reason to go back to those old games if we missed it. Second endings and hidden secrets made a game better in my eyes. Now these trophies and achievements have me going back like a freak on a leash just to get them but it makes the experience less rewarding. Hence playing games suddenly became about collecting these trinkets just to show that you played a game. And the only real reason to go back to any game is for multi-player anymore.

Back 2 years ago, while I was writing up the story for an RPG named Senctumaxio, I remembered a bunch of little 4th wall breakers from previous games that you just don't ever see anymore. When that Kara demo from Quantic Dream came out it made me wonder what game they were going to come out with next. It was that 4th wall breaker in the last half of the demo that reminded me of what games used to be. But I had a few other idea's back two years ago.

The Metal Gear Solid CD case codec number thing. Why doesn't anyone ever print on the back side of the cover art for the games? Ever notice that? You can easily take the cover art out from your cases when you open them and bend them backwards a bit. I thought of a secret code being printed on the back of that paper. And in a cut-scene at the end of my game would show this hint to look at the back of the cover art paper. Thus adding more mystery to the game.

From .hack//Outbreak. When MIA got infected and turned into an enemy. Why not have a boss battle in the first game only to find out that, in the third and final game, that was you fighting yourself because of a time dimension wormhole? (There is more context to this but you get the basic picture.)

I forget the name of this game but it had 4 different endings. The final one was to delete your saved file and lose everything. Mass Effect 3 tried something like this but with the main character dying however... Even I think that was a bad ending. Instead mine was a major plot twist that was so twisted... it enraged you. Basically think of the illuminati. Instead of their interest in the forever unknown they had an interest to what served the world best? By completely obliterating a single race of intellectual beings just because of their way of life? Meanwhile you think it was because of another race of intellectual beings messing with biology. (Salem Witchcraft trials meets resident evil, but has the events of the black plague and the story of Julius Caesar.)

The cryptic message in Doom played backwards. "Shoot me in the face to win the game." When I created the music for a certain town I wanted a very eerie feeling. While I was creating the music I had the bright idea to have this town deserted with signs of a struggle being very minimal. But the entire town knew about the aforementioned illuminati's plans to wipe out an entire race. They were assassinated, but the information on the illuminati was kept in the form of what the free mason's did back in the day. They put all the clues into the art of the town. L.A. Noire was successful in this type of puzzle solving gameplay. Uncharted Golden Abyss has already put this idea to work, but it is to solve ancient mysteries and doesn't really add any gameplay value than GTA San Andreas did with the photography challenge.

Interactive cut-scenes. Almost every game tries to allow you to change the way a character thinks and acts with basic dialogue choices. My idea was to avoid looking at dialogue choices and concentrate on how you would react to situations. Indigo Prophecy had a few of these. Example: You have a friend that have known for about 5 years now. You are going through a huge struggle together but you see the light of what the other people are doing as a good thing. He see's everything they are doing as a big conspiracy in an act of hatred. You get into a big fight over something that you find to be small and he see's as a huge problem with you. He starts attacking you. What do you do? Try to get him to stop without him killing you? Or fight back and accidently kill him? It would be like trying to slap the sense into a conspiracy theorist. Then again you could agree with him with dialogue but that wouldn't be a real good 4th wall breaker now would it?

Strength's and weaknesses. Most of the time you just have to choose the character with magic or physical abilities. My game was only based on three characters. Their combat styles resembled a sniper rifle, a shotgun, and dual pistols. But they do not use guns. In fact I wanted it to play like Tekken mostly for combat.

Leveling up.... I am sort of tired of seeing the same level up system being used in every single game. When EA made the fight night series I liked the concept they had for upping your stats. You actually had to perform a certain training to up certain stats on your created character's campaign. In my game it was all about which character fought which enemy. if you exploited a weakness then the stats wouldn't go up. But defeating a tough enemy with no exploit would up your stats much better. I can already see some people disagreeing with this but you can't get mad at something unique for once.

These were just a few ideas I had two years ago.

#4
spiri7ussancti

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Gaming has gone mainstream.

Being a "gamer" is very different.

Everybody plays games now, people of every age and social group. Just like everybody watches movies, or reads books, and listens to music.

I think it's important to recognize the difference between being someone who plays games,
and being a GAMER.

That being said, i'm not sure how you would distinguish yourself.

I will be giving this a lot of thought for the next few days.

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#5
CakeCom

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Gaming has definitely gone mainstream.

This is definitely a bad thing.

As the mainstream crowd and the gamers don't tend to see eye to eye... and when the mainstream crowd is the crowd that represents gamers in the media and all over the internet, it kind of pisses me off to see their perspectives being the definitive "All Gamers Act + Play Like this" sort of thing.

#6
The_Con-Sept

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The problem I see mostly is that the mainstream seems to garner more of the casual gamers than the hardcore. For example people from the mainstream only play games found on the Apple app store. Hardcore stick to their games while the mainstream like to pick and choose their purchases. Most of the time they jump in on the second or third sequel.

#7
spiri7ussancti

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The one thing that I've definitely been able to conclude.
Is gaming going main stream is double edged.

I just spent the weekend at mlg. And without gaming going mainstream, it would have never been that big, or that awesome.

You also wouldn't be able to have an event that big without the hardcore either though.


However some bad things are coming from the popularity as well.

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#8
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QUOTE (Rickrolled @ Jan 10 2011, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Love how the resident tough guy is happy to talk trash on an internet forum but back pedals as soon as he is called out. Typical coward. No doubt he'll respond to this with excessive bravado in order to restore his rightful place as a fully fledged internet badass.

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#9
The_Con-Sept

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I just wonder why so many people hated the Mass Effect 3 ending. A lot of games have bad endings to them. I personally hate the ending to Perfect Dark's (N64) Floating Pillars , Metal Gear Solid 2's bitch ass Raiden kills Solidus, and Uncharted Golden Abyss' final quick time fight with gwavardo or however the fuck you spell is name... But to get a refund?

I'm sorry but a refund? Seriously? What's next? Halo 4 doesn't launch on its original launch date and they demand 10 dollars off?

#10
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I liked MGS2's ending. Not that playing as raiden throughout was a good thing.

QUOTE (Rickrolled @ Jan 10 2011, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Love how the resident tough guy is happy to talk trash on an internet forum but back pedals as soon as he is called out. Typical coward. No doubt he'll respond to this with excessive bravado in order to restore his rightful place as a fully fledged internet badass.

I like to make werewolf...
MOVIES
bunny.jpg


#11
The_Con-Sept

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QUOTE (x_byakugan_x @ Mar 29 2012, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I liked MGS2's ending. Not that playing as raiden throughout was a good thing.


My problem was that Solid Snake was framed, has the bandanna with Limitless on it, Raiden is fighting all those metal gears with a rocket launcher. Then they get to land and Raiden kills Solidus Snake instead of Solid Snake himself. And with a bitch ass red and blue samurai sword. Snake sort of pissed me off for only being able to fend off uh... was it chance? or fate? what the fuck... OH YEAH Fortune. Either way that ending made me mad but I didn't demand a refund for it.

For the record: Heavenly Sword did it much better with the two colors of the sword thing.

But another issue I have with the main stream is now... they think we all read comic books as well. Sure I picked up a few cult classics on my PSP Go but it doesn't mean I have EVERY STINKING COMIC ON EARTH. Locally our radio show does comic book release promos along side with video games. I'm tired of the CoD meme already. I don't play it at all now. (Mines Dino D-Day.)

#12
MaxDamage

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Most of you are missing the point.

Games are being feminised.

What this means in a very blunt and honest sense, is that developers are trying to win the farmville players over in an industry that is dominated by male gamers.
Feminisation of education in the west for example has risen along with twisted communist/socialist ideas, that everyone must be equal, regardless of ability.

Everyone deserves first prize, a medal.
Everyone 'deserves to win'.

Feminism seeks to eradicate competition.

An example of this is when female role models try to tell an entire generation of girls that they are 'all beautiful', completely missing the point that beautiful suggests unique, exceptional, etc.
They seek to bring down the standards in order that others then 'fit in' and don't feel 'left out'.

Through this theme, games like Mass Effect are becoming little more than cutscenes with generic gameplay and dialogue options that 'dynamically change your experience and story line'..
Hello? Choose your own adventure text games were pretty much how computer gaming STARTED. I would like to think we evolved beyond this, and substituting FUN, INNOVATION and COMPETITION, for graphics.

Because gaming is a place guys have traditionally seen as a refuge from the deluge of psychotic feminists and feminisation/poisoning of everything else in our culture (the nagging self important moms, the education system increasingly geared to favour girls, the media that portrays women as goddesses and little girls as geniuses in movies and tv series, the 'girl only' scholarship grants (see SOE)), the effect has been dramatic. The worst thing, is that naturally longstanding people involved in the scene have been the most open minded and welcoming. Welcoming them in and saying 'of course you can play, Hell we WANT you to play'.
Us long time male gamers have probably dreamed of meeting girls who actually love gaming and don't bitch about it.

Now games that are aimed at us, the primary players of FPS and RPG games are being tailor made for an audience that is still a minority.

So speak with your pockets.
Do not pay Bio-Ware a cent.
Avoid SOE if you can, both of these have active feminist recruitment programs and anti-masculist agendas.

The saddest experience in gaming this year for me, was playing Skyrim and seeing just how dumb it's gotten.
Don't be fooled into thinking 'it's just been simplified for consoles', it's been simplified for young girls (not to be mistaken for genuine hardcore female gamers).. and themes within about reversing roles in a Viking themed world, constantly putting down men and placing women as 'the true power behind' great male characters, and sometimes outright ridicule of masculinity to cater to feminists, and score 'brownie points', leaves a sour taste.

It's bad enough that real life Scandinavian countries (Sweden/Norway) have become feminist strongholds and capitals of planet Pussywhipped (Sweden was until recently the suicide capital of the world, note that 3/4 of suicides globally are male) without the fantasy realm of the most manly motherfuckers being given the same treatment.

It's weak.

Fight it.

This is in guys' and girls' interests, because they're both making the games shitter for us who WANT good games, who WANT challenge, competition and intelligent design, and patronising women by filling games with 'you go girl' and needless hostility towards traditionally (for a reason) dominant male characters.

Support games that give you what you believe in.
Now I'm not saying pirate those other big titles you can't resist, but I am saying:

Don't pay them.

Edited by MaxDamage, 22 April 2012 - 11:32 PM.

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#13
Nevermore

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Dude you are pretty spot on with that post right there.

I can't put words together like that without filling it with RAGE.


So thank you, I hope more people read that.

#14
oldSkool

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QUOTE (MaxDamage @ Apr 23 2012, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everyone deserves first prize, a medal.
Everyone 'deserves to win'.


Education (schools, universities) has gone the same route. We're no longer able to tell people what they've done is "wrong" - we have to be encouraging, and always positive.
The one exception that I can find (and verify from my own experience) is trade colleges. Where you'll either build or fix something correctly or you don't.


One day, when you're old enough - I'll tell you how I fought in the bit wars...

#15
CakeCom

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Also the bad Mass Effect 3 ending isn't comparable to something like the end of Perfect Dark or MGS2 for a reason.

Mass Effect 3 was a trilogy, one that's been promising the most epic of endings, endings that would finally help end the series off on a high note and hopefully utilize everything that's been accomplished so far in the past and have shit play out totally differently than if you didn't put all that effort into it.


Also when in the press a company says "We plan on this being one of the most amazing endings to any video game ever" and then the ending is very obviously rushed and spit on they kind of give people a reason to have the chance for a refund.


It's not the customers' fault that the company they're purchasing off of outright lied to their customers and that is why they do deserve a refund.


The changing of the ending is something that's actually debatable... although I still don't see why anyone would side with the devs or this sudden "artistic integrity" bs that was basically just a word pitched out by IGN that caught on...


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#16
The_Con-Sept

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(Sorry UDP... I keep getting distracted on my one day off by a lot of people who need rides. I know your game is your baby but it will take some time for me to make every single sound effect.)

You know I never really noticed how bad our school systems were until about 3 months ago when my room mate, who is a teacher, told me about the school system of today.

See what is happening is we have a lot of losers in school. And, hey, I dropped out myself. There are a lot of reasons why the school system is so fucked right now. They will graduate someone with a 2.8 GPA until they hit 9th grade. At least that is what I went through. Now they graduate you with a 2.8 GPA all the way until you are in College. And when these kids go to College... they disappear like flies in the middle of frog land.

My room mate tells me all the time just how much he can not stand working in public schools. They just do not want to learn. Half of the time it is because no one in the class is really that into each and every subject. They rebel. But it is important to learn at least some basics. So they let a few things loose in their schools and what does that create? Stupidity.

For example I drive a cab. It is a very simple service to do. Doesn't even require an IQ of 25 to perform.... But apparently it does...

I can not even begin to tell you just how stupid people really are. Where did these people go to school because in New Mexico they actually held you back a grade if you didn't make the cut. Every day a different cab driver has a new reason as to why driving a cab sucks and how much they complain. It went from being too much competition, to too many drivers, to someone apparently "stealing bells," to my favorite one "Someone is hacking the system and stealing all the jobs."

When simply they have to blame themselves. When I see a call that is about 5 miles away from me I go for it. The other cab drivers all say the same thing: "With gas prices as high as they are its not worth it to me to go for them." Yet I snatch them up and they become fares that range anywhere from 7 dollars to 80 dollars. While I am doing circles around 7 cabs sitting in an area of about 4 miles, all I want to do to them when they complain is SLAP THEM IN THE FUCKING FACE! Every so often I allow a shitty driver to pay me 50 bucks to ride with them and give them pointers on how to make more money. My biggest tip to all of the drivers... Go to wal-mart and buy a beach towel for 20 bucks... or a plain solid color one for 12 bucks.

"Why buy a towel?"
- Cry babies love them because they can scream into them.
- People who just threw up get cold very very fast.
- When it starts getting bumpy and sweaty back there you just throw it on top of them and they don't care.
- When someone jumps in who had their face beat in, it makes a great holder for ice!
- When you get tired it makes a great neck brace instead of those toilet seat covers you see others wear.
- If someone throws up its best if it hits a towel. Works better than a grocery bag.

Sorry for jumping off the rails for a bit. Back on topic.

I started seeing the trend of video games, particularly in the FPS range, become more of the same fucking thing. The only differences being between the amount of guns you can carry at one time, and if health packs are used or not.

I used to play a lot of Perfect Dark back in the day. I also played Counter Strike. The games of today use classes but have a limited amount of guns. Gun balancing should be more like Socom 2 where if you picked a shitty ass gun... it was a shitty ass gun.

Even major puzzle games have dumbed down. There are a few cryptic messages found in some games that I was able to find the answer to. The number one game I hate is Little Big Planet. Why? Because I am 1 god damn trophy away from a platinum and everyone hates the levels I create because they are too damn hard. Even though for me it is only moderate difficulty. People can't even put 2 and 2 together in such a simple puzzle I created.

Yet the number one fucking level was always a damn trophy hunter's level. Even some of the famed ones found on youtube back a few years ago stunk. When I found someone else who made levels like mine I hearted his levels and I showed him mine. I gave him a bunch of new ideas like the circular maze bit.

#17
Nevermore

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Re: Taxi stuff, I've been wanting to be a driver here for a while.. went to a talk by the cab company pwner when he was in town and he basically said the same thing, but more so, the indians come here and hang around the airport social or the shopping center cab ranks talking their language hanging with their friends while the rest of the wheelmen go about picking up long distance jobs that others are ignoring.
BUT a lot of them here do it because it gets them a 'job' on the system and if they make sure to earn under a certain amount they can also milk the welfare system for more than an unemployed person.


But hey what does that have to do with gaming? nothing really, but I wanted to add it.

#18
way2lazy2care

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QUOTE (The_Con-Sept @ Apr 26 2012, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even major puzzle games have dumbed down. There are a few cryptic messages found in some games that I was able to find the answer to. The number one game I hate is Little Big Planet. Why? Because I am 1 god damn trophy away from a platinum and everyone hates the levels I create because they are too damn hard. Even though for me it is only moderate difficulty. People can't even put 2 and 2 together in such a simple puzzle I created.

Dude. Knowing your customer is an important part of game design. If they don't like your levels it's because you are misunderstanding your market, not because they are misunderstanding your game. You can't blame consumers for your own shortcomings.
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ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND MIGHTY MOTH!

QUOTE (SN3S @ May 6 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sensuality; this is all for fitness.

#19
The_Con-Sept

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QUOTE (way2lazy2care @ Apr 27 2012, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dude. Knowing your customer is an important part of game design. If they don't like your levels it's because you are misunderstanding your market, not because they are misunderstanding your game. You can't blame consumers for your own shortcomings.


I had seen some Ninja levels on LBP before. They claimed Ninja Gaiden Status. Some even tried to mimic wipeout and taikishi's castle. But those shows actually have difficult challenges. The levels consisted of simply running across a few hurdles and that was the end of the level. Really? No challenge what so ever. Like taking a school test where every answer was correct no matter what you wrote.

I made three different obstacle courses, in each one was a small puzzle that was easy to figure out. I even numbered the steps for them and put arrows. Shoot even one of them was a big wheel maze that turned in circles in order for you to get to the other side. I hated most of the ninja levels because it was all about everyone winning. In my levels I actually graded you by putting points in certain areas. If you didn't find the points then you were not a good enough ninja and would score very low.

But oh well. Everyone hearts the level of a walking zebra.... That doesn't even do anything else but walk on a straight line. I liked the LBP creator's challenges where people made walking tanks and wall climbers and transformer vehicles.

And the one level with a simple objective that is hilarious and fun was SHARK! Where you just keep running on platforms in water while a shark jumped out of the water and ate you... until everyone dies.

@ Nevermore
I, myself, have never applied for unemployment or assisted living programs. Because in the end.... If you get caught lying about it you have hell to pay.

But as a chauffeur, you gotta go and get your money. What I hate the most is these 9 to 5 slavers who get in a cab and just expect the money to be there for them to take. As if their 9-5 rules gave them a guaranteed paycheck every two weeks. And like I said they sit at the tech center all day long and all night long. I, myself, hate the fares in the tech center. Its not the distance but their fucking attitude. Yet the drivers complain about how they can't make their lease payments or not having enough money after wasting it on a new car, or a big screen tv, or a new electric bass, or a fucking hunting rifle. No they can't drive 8 minutes down Arapahoe rd to pick up Sarah at Bistro Al Vino who is going to bowles and simms for 70 dollars. Or Jim Branon at 470 and Smokey hill who goes back to Colorado springs for 200 dollars almost every other month. Jack in Sedalia who makes a round trip to the city and back for another 200 dollars. "It's just too far away man." (Man get the fuck out of this cab and go get a job working at McD's.)

It's funny because some of these drivers pay more attention to what you are doing instead of what they are doing. I have someone who truly believes that I hacked the system and was stealing jobs from everyone. Jason has a class action lawsuit filed against him because they believe he has "seniority benefits bestowed upon him at dispatch." Shawn had his tires slashed because someone truly believed he stole an airport run from someone else. Todd got suspended for being at a concert venue that we can sit at, in the cab stand. A bunch of fucking bullshit happens within our company. If you want to see a company eat itself alive join mine and listen to all the drama.

They just can't fucking move their ass and go pick someone up. They reject personal jobs that are just 15 minutes away. 7 dollars or 20 dollars, go fucking pick them up. What I love is how long it takes for them to snap after a personal calls them and they finally decide to go and pick them up. And when they finally do get there... they have already left.

And when they get a no job.... As in the person either cancels at the door, is not found, or does not like to answer cell phones.... They complain.

I created a new saying the other day. I might have been beat this time, but I'm not running away with my tail between my legs.

I have been punched, had a knife pulled on me, had a few runners, and had vouchers that didn't go through for a total of 65 dollars.... But I don't ever let it get me down.

(But I will admit that I hate going into castle rock. Only because there is only one person that ever calls out of there almost every night. His fare to and from comes to a whopping 14 dollars. After the white limo driver gave up we started seeing his call every night. There really is nothing to do in Castle rock at night. But I do take any calls in franktown or roxburough. Because I know what is there.)

Edited by The_Con-Sept, 27 April 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#20
Artswolf

Artswolf
  • Members
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  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada, Alberta
  • Interests:Art, Gaming, artwork,<br />Inventing Ideas, Constructing, Archetecture,<br />Design, Innovation, Prophicy,<br />History, Reading, Solar Panels,<br />Game Development, Pizza, Nostradamus,<br />3D modelling, Abstract, Geography,<br />Welding, Driving, Public Speaking,<br />Protests, Cooking, Fashion,<br />Photography, Comics, Warhammer,<br />Second Life, Sleeping, Animals,<br />Music , Astrolab, Magnification,<br />Astrology, Telescope, Swimming,<br />Basketball, Mechanics, Perpetual Energy,<br />Military, Sci-fi, Fantasy<br />ArtGalleries, Library, Movies,<br />Programming , Making Music
FOR SURE Gaming has lost its Edge.

Infact Sometimes I wish I owned a old Nintendo to play Duck Hunter.

But it dont matter really. 50 years from Now Video games will be so highly detailed, youd think its a real movie. The industry will game model every last pebble on a ground. Objects in games are going to be Way more detailed than they ever could be. And they will find ways to do it soo much faster and simpilar.
You might as well set aside 5 years of your life just for gaming icon_smile.gif




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