205 replies to this topic

[spiri7ussancti]

Trying way too hard.

I agree with otaku, this all suspiciously sounds like someone who was defending a bad game might say.

Just because you invest time into an addictive game and think you're good at it doesn't mean anything- it's like saying you're good at WoW or something :/

:trollface:

I think the problem is you all aren't trying hard enough.

So why don't you tell me what fps games do take skill. give me.....6 examples.

each.

Edited by spiri7ussancti, 17 May 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[otaku_4_life]

I think the problem is you all aren't trying hard enough.

So why don't you tell me what fps games do take skill. give me.....6 examples.

Mario Kart
Lego StarWars
TES: Oblivion

And possibly Solitaire. All I can think of right now, tbh.

[CakeCom]

1. Turn off Autoaim
2. Limit grenades + grenade launchers (get rid of scavenger for anyone equipped with either of these)
3. Remove killstreaks (they're incredibly easy to get and just encourage camping for noobs [although I never had to to get them and infact rape campers like a BAMF])
4. Turn off Autoaim
5. Remove the primary weapons set as a secondary (fixed in black ops- by this I mean, disable shotguns on secondary and don't allow perk for dual attatchments)
6. More of a personal thing but I like class based gameplay as it encourages teamwork.
7. Turn off Autoaim
8. Remove gimmicky/stupid and actally annoying weapons such as - Riot Shield, Models, Throwing Knife, RPG (notice I'm not mentioning teh_noob tube)
9. Remove knife lunge or at the least get rid of the perk that makes the range like rediculous (fixed in Black Ops. and can't rembember name of the perk atm)
10. Turn off Autoaim
11. Explosives do way too much damage.
12. Remove Perks (Maybe I should have mentioned earlier, but for proffesional play perks would probably really kill the game with things like Last Stand, Dual Attatchments, etc.
13. I think I already mentioned but turn off or at least turn down the Autoaim just a smidge.

Halo 3 makes (in my opinion) the perfect competitive FPS with MLG rules, therefore it would be my perfect example of a team based, FPS Console shooter that is worth time and effort proffesionally speaking. The autoaim isn't rediculous, there's no instant knife kill thingy (except for the limited ammo sword thingy and the melee to the back which is totally legitimate) and there's no gimicky weapons (except vehicles which is not included in MLG)

MW2 is a game meant to be played by casual gamers who think they are good players... good players still play sure but in my eyes they aren't good players when compared to the bad players playing just as well 50% of the time.

Oh shit sorry I thought u wanted 6 reasons it's not a competitive FPS.

6 console FPS shooters that I take seriously- k here we go.

Halo 3
Halo Reach
Goldeneye (N64)
Doom
Wolfenstein

I honestly couldn't come up with another one
*edit* Also for the record, I very much suck at Halo 3 and therefore do not play it much.
I have an Xbox and a PS3, I'm no fanboy but I do think Sony needs to try harder to release good games.
Halo 3 is honestly imo the first perfect console FPS for competitive play- next to possibly Golden Eye but I mean realistically.

Edited by CakeCom, 17 May 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[spiri7ussancti]

1. Turn off Autoaim
2. Limit grenades + grenade launchers (get rid of scavenger for anyone equipped with either of these)
3. Remove killstreaks (they're incredibly easy to get and just encourage camping for noobs [although I never had to to get them and infact rape campers like a BAMF])
4. Turn off Autoaim
5. Remove the primary weapons set as a secondary (fixed in black ops- by this I mean, disable shotguns on secondary and don't allow perk for dual attatchments)
6. More of a personal thing but I like class based gameplay as it encourages teamwork.
7. Turn off Autoaim
8. Remove gimmicky/stupid and actally annoying weapons such as - Riot Shield, Models, Throwing Knife, RPG (notice I'm not mentioning teh_noob tube)
9. Remove knife lunge or at the least get rid of the perk that makes the range like rediculous (fixed in Black Ops. and can't rembember name of the perk atm)
10. Turn off Autoaim
11. Explosives do way too much damage.
12. Remove Perks (Maybe I should have mentioned earlier, but for proffesional play perks would probably really kill the game with things like Last Stand, Dual Attatchments, etc.
13. I think I already mentioned but turn off or at least turn down the Autoaim just a smidge.

Halo 3 makes (in my opinion) the perfect competitive FPS with MLG rules, therefore it would be my perfect example of a team based, FPS Console shooter that is worth time and effort proffesionally speaking. The autoaim isn't rediculous, there's no instant knife kill thingy (except for the limited ammo sword thingy and the melee to the back which is totally legitimate) and there's no gimicky weapons (except vehicles which is not included in MLG)

MW2 is a game meant to be played by casual gamers who think they are good players... good players still play sure but in my eyes they aren't good players when compared to the bad players playing just as well 50% of the time.

Oh shit sorry I thought u wanted 6 reasons it's not a competitive FPS.

6 console FPS shooters that I take seriously- k here we go.

Halo 3
Halo Reach
Goldeneye (N64)
Doom
Wolfenstein

I honestly couldn't come up with another one

FINALLY. DECENT LIST OF PROBLEMS. But not really.

1.I hate auto aim. I'm with you on that one dude. It's always fucking me up. I aim at some guy, and then someone runs behind him and now i'm shooting a wall. Pisses me off.
2. I'll say this now, marathon light weight, if used correctly, COMPLETELY DESTROYS ALL EXPLOSIVES. I switch to it immediately if having a problem with rpg's, claymores, grenades, w/e.
3. Every kill streak in mw2, means absolutely nothing to the wrath of my stinger.
4.I'm with you dude.
5. Whilst people consider this system op, the fact that everybody has it makes it balanced. Also raises strat a little in what kind of secondary you use, and when to pull it out.
6. It is indeed personal.
7. I'm with you brother
8. It makes the casual side of the game a little more entertaining. I mean when's the last time you actually had a problem with beating some1 with a riot shield, models, throwing knife, rpg? Never, but it's still fun to throw on every once in a while just for fun.
9. Commando is built in in black ops, and it's balances it's self out in mw2 because i love being able to hear these dumb asses run up on me from 5000 feet away.
10. srsly dude, i'm with you.
11. Ya, but marathon and light weight makes you wonder why they exist in the first place.
12. I really don't agree with this. All perks can be countered pretty easily, the only one I kind of agree with is last stand, but once again...when is the last time that that actually did anything for them?
13. NO, don't turn down, TURN OFF.

I also love me some halo dude.

I love me some doom.

AND I FUCKING LOVE ME SOME GOLDEN EYE.

See, we're not so different.

[ThrashTitan]

UT.
Tribes.
Quake.
CSS.
CS.
BF:BC.

[otaku_4_life]

UT.
Tribes.
Quake.
CSS.
CS.
BF:BC.

BC is actually awful. BF2 would have been a much better example if the hit reg wasn't completely RNG.

[CakeCom]

UT.
Tribes.
Quake.
CSS.
CS.
BF:BC.

We were talking console, but yeah I think Quake was on console too right? If so it'd probably be fine, I've never checked it out personally.
I think there was a CS on console but I heard it wasn't worth the try- Bad Company isn't something I'd play competitively on console.

Also, you shouldn't HAVE to avoid explosives with lightweight + marathon- I know how to avoid with this combo as well as simply sniping from a distance anyway but the explosives just shouldn't kill people with one shot unless it's a direct hit or right on top of you- it seems to be that things like noob toob and grenades knock you down with one blow... sure it's (kind of) realistic but if the game wants to be taken competitively seriously it can't give a person unlimited access to a weapon that does oneshot with almost no precision and effort needed to be used.

Perk wise: Scavenger, Commando, Ninja, Last Stand and all the death streaks are uncompetitive in the sense that they give a huge disadvantage to someone without the perk- which can be fine, after all Team Fortress 2 has unlockable weapons, blah blah but nontheless these perks specifically are why noone takes the game seriously (there's more but it's been too long and i can't remember name tbh).

Edited by CakeCom, 17 May 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[Dirge]

And to be fair, top-tier WoW arena has a massive skill ceiling, approaching that of Starcraft.

What? I think you must be trolling here.

The force in which my shit comes out of my ass is greater than that of most people's. Does that mean shitting takes large amounts of skill?

Replace the word "Shit" with "Post" and if you are smart enough you can figure the answer out for yourself

1. Turn off Autoaim
2. Limit grenades + grenade launchers (get rid of scavenger for anyone equipped with either of these)
3. Remove killstreaks (they're incredibly easy to get and just encourage camping for noobs [although I never had to to get them and infact rape campers like a BAMF])
4. Turn off Autoaim
5. Remove the primary weapons set as a secondary (fixed in black ops- by this I mean, disable shotguns on secondary and don't allow perk for dual attatchments)
6. More of a personal thing but I like class based gameplay as it encourages teamwork.
7. Turn off Autoaim
8. Remove gimmicky/stupid and actally annoying weapons such as - Riot Shield, Models, Throwing Knife, RPG (notice I'm not mentioning teh_noob tube)
9. Remove knife lunge or at the least get rid of the perk that makes the range like rediculous (fixed in Black Ops. and can't rembember name of the perk atm)
10. Turn off Autoaim
11. Explosives do way too much damage.
12. Remove Perks (Maybe I should have mentioned earlier, but for proffesional play perks would probably really kill the game with things like Last Stand, Dual Attatchments, etc.
13. I think I already mentioned but turn off or at least turn down the Autoaim just a smidge.

Halo 3 makes (in my opinion) the perfect competitive FPS with MLG rules, therefore it would be my perfect example of a team based, FPS Console shooter that is worth time and effort proffesionally speaking. The autoaim isn't rediculous, there's no instant knife kill thingy (except for the limited ammo sword thingy and the melee to the back which is totally legitimate) and there's no gimicky weapons (except vehicles which is not included in MLG)

MW2 is a game meant to be played by casual gamers who think they are good players... good players still play sure but in my eyes they aren't good players when compared to the bad players playing just as well 50% of the time.

Oh shit sorry I thought u wanted 6 reasons it's not a competitive FPS.

6 console FPS shooters that I take seriously- k here we go.

Halo 3
Halo Reach
Goldeneye (N64)
Doom
Wolfenstein

I honestly couldn't come up with another one
*edit* Also for the record, I very much suck at Halo 3 and therefore do not play it much.
I have an Xbox and a PS3, I'm no fanboy but I do think Sony needs to try harder to release good games.
Halo 3 is honestly imo the first perfect console FPS for competitive play- next to possibly Golden Eye but I mean realistically.

If you are going to post an argument at least don't be spammy with it.

1. Turn off Autoaim
4. Turn off Autoaim
7. Turn off Autoaim
10. Turn off Autoaim

6 console FPS shooters that I take seriously- k here we go.
Halo 3
Halo Reach

Can you see what I did here?

Halo 3 makes (in my opinion) the perfect competitive FPS with MLG rules, therefore it would be my perfect example of a team based, FPS Console shooter that is worth time and effort proffesionally speaking. The autoaim isn't rediculous, there's no instant knife kill thingy (except for the limited ammo sword thingy and the melee to the back which is totally legitimate) and there's no gimicky weapons (except vehicles which is not included in MLG)

Its a well known fact that by MLG rules, they take games out of popularity over games that take skill. Otherwise you kiddies would be playing Red Orchestra or Operation Flash point instead of Walo's.

there's no instant knife kill thingy (except for the limited ammo sword thingy and the melee to the back which is totally legitimate)

So tell me how stabbing one shotting someone with a knife is different than one shotting somone with a knife? Please. enlighten me.

and there's no gimicky weapons (except vehicles which is not included in MLG)

SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS

3. Remove killstreaks (they're incredibly easy to get and just encourage camping for noobs [although I never had to to get them and infact rape campers like a BAMF])

Killstreaks in CoD is just another flavour to keep the gameplay interesting. They are a sort of milestone to the player and are very satisfying rewards. I haven't played a CoD game Since CoD4, but if you wanted to make it competitive, you would need to tone them down a bit and refine them more. For a pick up and play game Like Call of duty, its just fine where it is.

6. More of a personal thing but I like class based gameplay as it encourages teamwork.

CoD is a run and gun shooter where you play with random people. No matter the circumstance the game rewards you not for teamwork but for solo play. Its not designed or geared for teamwork.

8. Remove gimmicky/stupid and actally annoying weapons such as - Riot Shield, Models, Throwing Knife, RPG (notice I'm not mentioning teh_noob tube)

Hammer, Rockets, and equipment are all part of Halo 3. You want that removed to?

11. Explosives do way too much damage.

Wouldn't this make it more realistic and thus: More hardcore? Would you rather take 6 rockets to the face?

12. Remove Perks (Maybe I should have mentioned earlier, but for proffesional play perks would probably really kill the game with things like Last Stand, Dual Attatchments, etc.

Perks are fine the way they are. Its what makes CoD CoD. The RPG element made for nice flavour in an otherwise drole shooter. to make it "Hardcore" or to add "Balance" or "skill" they would have to refine the perks, and hell even remove some to make players think "If I get this, then I don't get this, how will this be an advantage for me" rather than a copy paste build that everyone must follow to be competitive. Actual strategy and thinking within the game geared towards a certain playstyle. Then again, this games only playstyle is"Shoot the other guy in the head".

MW2 is a game meant to be played by casual gamers who think they are good players... good players still play sure but in my eyes they aren't good players when compared to the bad players playing just as well 50% of the time.

Yeah I have to agree with this statement.

Hi I'm Dirge.

UT.
Tribes.
Quake.
CSS.
CS.
BF:BC.

Red Orchestra. Operation Flash point.

[otaku_4_life]

What? I think you must be trolling here.

You obviously haven't heard of Nadagast--professional WoW and SC2 player. He's actually too good at video games to be human.

http://www.majorleag...rviews-nadagast

Interview's a bit old, but whatever.

Edited by otaku_4_life, 17 May 2011 - 06:15 PM.

[CakeCom]

What? I think you must be trolling here.


Replace the word "Shit" with "Post" and if you are smart enough you can figure the answer out for yourself



If you are going to post an argument at least don't be spammy with it.




Can you see what I did here?



Its a well known fact that by MLG rules, they take games out of popularity over games that take skill. Otherwise you kiddies would be playing Red Orchestra or Operation Flash point instead of Walo's.


So tell me how stabbing one shotting someone with a knife is different than one shotting somone with a knife? Please. enlighten me.

SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS SHOTTY SNIPERS



Killstreaks in CoD is just another flavour to keep the gameplay interesting. They are a sort of milestone to the player and are very satisfying rewards. I haven't played a CoD game Since CoD4, but if you wanted to make it competitive, you would need to tone them down a bit and refine them more. For a pick up and play game Like Call of duty, its just fine where it is.


CoD is a run and gun shooter where you play with random people. No matter the circumstance the game rewards you not for teamwork but for solo play. Its not designed or geared for teamwork.


Hammer, Rockets, and equipment are all part of Halo 3. You want that removed to?


Wouldn't this make it more realistic and thus: More hardcore? Would you rather take 6 rockets to the face?


Perks are fine the way they are. Its what makes CoD CoD. The RPG element made for nice flavour in an otherwise drole shooter. to make it "Hardcore" or to add "Balance" or "skill" they would have to refine the perks, and hell even remove some to make players think "If I get this, then I don't get this, how will this be an advantage for me" rather than a copy paste build that everyone must follow to be competitive. Actual strategy and thinking within the game geared towards a certain playstyle. Then again, this games only playstyle is"Shoot the other guy in the head".


Yeah I have to agree with this statement.

Hi I'm Dirge.


Red Orchestra. Operation Flash point.

I was going to argue with like everything you said until you agreed that it was geared towards casuale gamers =p.

MLG are a bunch of fucking idiots (there I'll agree) that try to choose popular games to use for competitive value, but the only game that I've seen them do right is Halo - they removed all the gimicky weapons + other stuff for MLG rules so competitive wise you can't really argue that for Halo (also the sword from Halo has limited ammo, therefore is less of a nuisance- they're also pretty rare to find on a map usually, so not everyone in the server has access to them at once)

Edited by CakeCom, 17 May 2011 - 06:13 PM.

[ThrashTitan]

So why don't you tell me what fps games do take skill. give me.....6 examples.

We were talking console

He never mentioned the 6 must be console shooters; if so here we go.

Quake.
UT.
Tribes.
GOW.
CS.
Operation Flashpoint.

Oh and you are correct CS was released on the xbox in 04.

BC is actually awful. BF2 would have been a much better example if the hit reg wasn't completely RNG.

You tried to play BF2 lately? Especially Karkand, its all spawn camping. Has degraded into utter shit.

[otaku_4_life]

You tried to play BF2 lately? Especially Karkand, its all spawn camping. Has degraded into utter shit.

BF2 was a fucking incredible competitive game at its peak, and the entire competitive community was really tight-knit. Then EA kind of derp'd it with patches to appease bads, and could never fix their netcode.

[ThrashTitan]

Same with all the BFs, bar the most recent. The community was dissolved into campers, hax and zero team work.

[Dirge]

You obviously haven't heard of Nadagast--professional WoW and SC2 player. He's actually too good at video games to be human.

http://www.majorleag...rviews-nadagast

Interview's a bit old, but whatever.

Yeah I don't doubt he is a good player, but I just don't think PvPing in a PvE Based MMO is that impressive is all. Do I believe you can be competitive inside WoW? Sure, there are races for world firsts on all raid bosses at patch launch and arena competitions and leaderboards. Do I believe it should be taken seriously as an E-sport? Not with the current Game mechanics no.

I was going to argue with like everything you said until you agreed that it was geared towards casuale gamers =p.

Thats.....because it is? Is this what this discussion is about? I only skimmed most of the posts and lost a few brain cells in the process.

MLG are a bunch of fucking idiots (there I'll agree) that try to choose popular games to use for competitive value, but the only game that I've seen them do right is Halo - they removed all the gimicky weapons + other stuff for MLG rules so competitive wise you can't really argue that for Halo (also the sword from Halo has limited ammo, therefore is less of a nuisance- they're also pretty rare to find on a map usually, so not everyone in the server has access to them at once)

I wouldn't go as far as calling them idiots. Yes they do that. Yes they try for mass appeal like MTV and totally steer away from "Gamer Interests". Sadly these people who care about MLG and take them seriously is actually really awesome. Why? It gets the word of professional gaming out there. Sure they huck shit at us like THIS and like THIS and then they present to us bullshit like this [Watch me]. Gamers don't care about auto shows or rap music, or the bling blong. But it gets their attention. With attention comes viewers and with viewers comes sponsors and with sponsors comes funding for E-sports.

So yes. Mindless masses can be good for something other than zombies sometimes.

[CakeCom]

Battlefield discussion in a Modern Warfare thread:

My pants feel tighter already.

[otaku_4_life]

Same with all the BFs, bar the most recent. The community was dissolved into campers, hax and zero team work.

You're mistaking competitive community for pub community, the latter always being batshit retarded in any game ever.

Edited by otaku_4_life, 17 May 2011 - 06:33 PM.

[Dirge]

You tried to play BF2 lately? Especially Karkand, its all spawn camping. Has degraded into utter shit.

BF2 was always spawn camping. Go Special ops with some C4, plant them on the heli. Jump in the shotgun in the Jeep. Drive down the road and watch the Heli fly overhead......

*click*

Next thing you know the driver is swerving offroad to avoid the fireworks display you created. This shit has been there since day 1 and I hope its in BF3. Don't like it? Well use a private server then.

BF2 was a fucking incredible competitive game at its peak, and the entire competitive community was really tight-knit. Then EA kind of derp'd it with patches to appease bads, and could never fix their netcode.

I forgot it was competitive.....But even then it was in game competitive and not Tournament competitive. Team based competitive play.

You're mistaking competitive community for pub community, the latter always being batshit retarded in any game ever.

I hate to say it but Otaku is right for once.

[otaku_4_life]

I forgot it was competitive.....But even then it was in game competitive and not Tournament competitive. Team based competitive play.

I didn't say it was a game that was "tournament-competitive", that was in response to the BC2/BF2 thing. FYI, the CPL actually picked up BF2 shortly before its death.

[CakeCom]

lol, you guys ever try strapping C4 to a teamates jeep with FF off then just click the switch when he goes off a ramp?

That motherfucker goes flying every time.

[ThrashTitan]

You're mistaking competitive community for pub community, the latter always being batshit retarded in any game ever.

Yeah I did mean pubs. I do find though the CSS pubs are fantastic.