66 replies to this topic

[Casualguy]

How about all of the content in MMOs that isn't available to lower level characters? All the gear, quests, locations, whatever. All of that is unlocked by your time; and that's even the case in MMOs that you pay for, not just the free ones.

The fact is, in LoL they have a levelling system that rewards the time you spend playing, by giving you an in game currency with which to unlock everything (apart from character skins). But, if you want to speed up that process, you can spend real money on it.

IT IS A FREE GAME.

This.

[Tree_]

How about all of the content in MMOs that isn't available to lower level characters? All the gear, quests, locations, whatever. All of that is unlocked by your time; and that's even the case in MMOs that you pay for, not just the free ones.

The fuck does this even have to do with what were talking about then? It's expected that one would put that much time into an MMO otherwise ... It wouldn't really be your typical MMO. Can you even name one Massively Multi-player game where you start off with good gear? That's just the way the genre works and always has. By your reckoning if Blizzard turned around tomorrow and said "Hey let's make Warcraft 4 but we'll implement a level system so that you need to unlock units, at level 1 you will just start off with basic ground units until you reach level 5 then you'll start unlocking some basic siege units, level 10 for advance ground units, etcetc" and in that game anyone was allowed to play other players outside their level range. Would that seem normal to you...?

Plus free MMO's are genreally (Read: Always) shit anyway...

[TheShadowNinja]

The fuck does this even have to do with what were talking about then? It's expected that one would put that much time into an MMO otherwise ... It wouldn't really be your typical MMO. Can you even name one Massively Multi-player game where you start off with good gear? That's just the way the genre works and always has. By your reckoning if Blizzard turned around tomorrow and said "Hey let's make Warcraft 4 but we'll implement a level system so that you need to unlock units, at level 1 you will just start off with basic ground units until you reach level 5 then you'll start unlocking some basic siege units, level 10 for advance ground units, etcetc" and in that game anyone was allowed to play other players outside their level range. Would that seem normal to you...?

Plus free MMO's are genreally (Read: Always) shit anyway...

You seem to completely disregard the fact that the entire time you play in LoL, you are playing against players around your level.
You won't ever be matched with 30s with full runepages at level 1. You'll play with fellow level 1 - 10s, at highest. No one you play with will ever have a distinct advantage over you.

By the time you reach ranked games, at level 30, if you don't have a full runepage to match other players then the fault is entirely yours. Not to mention you'll have gone through several rotations of free champions, so you'll find a champion you like.

Now if this doesn't sound like a rational system to you, then what the fuck are we even arguing about? Don't play and play DotA instead or play HoN.

[LysIs514]

Casualguy, if you are arguing LoL is more active than dota or HoN, I can't argue with you any longer. LoL is the most boring piece of garbage at competitive levels, and always has been, through imbalances like kayle/twitch, twisted fate, aoe-stacking, healstacking, healstacking/kiting teams, and fucking ezreal himself. Okay, you might argue that prior to banning pick, there can't be an imbalance because you can have the same teams on each side.

Well then it is boring gameplay. As I said, healstacking and kiting pretty much revolved around taric/janna/ezreal/ashe/soraka. The entire team revolves around kiting and not dying, and if a bad situation EVER comes up, janna ults, which resets teamfights. The only way to win was to do boring things better.

How about now, when more than ever dominant strategies revolve around farming? How about now, when CLG beat AS in wcg2010 purely because they had better picks and bans?

Go look at any HoN game. Ganks happen, and they WORK. People actually die. Lots of good games of HoN I saw there are more deaths than there were minutes in the game.

How many major tournaments have been made in LoL since its release? Maybe 5 I can count. How many for HoN? I'm pretty sure more than twice that amount are going on right now.

Why wasn't LoL released with drafting pick (aka banning pick)? Why does LoL still not have a public spectator mode? Why does LoL still not have replays? Why do I have to pay 20$ and still play 200+ games just to be able to play ranked mode?

You seem to completely disregard the fact that the entire time you play in LoL, you are playing against players around your level.
You won't ever be matched with 30s with full runepages at level 1. You'll play with fellow level 1 - 10s, at highest. No one you play with will ever have a distinct advantage over you.

By the time you reach ranked games, at level 30, if you don't have a full runepage to match other players then the fault is entirely yours. Not to mention you'll have gone through several rotations of free champions, so you'll find a champion you like.

Now if this doesn't sound like a rational system to you, then what the fuck are we even arguing about? Don't play and play DotA instead or play HoN.

I'll agree, if you have no intention on competing, LoL is an amazing game. I do have a desire to compete, and I have it in every game I choose to take seriously.

Right now, I have 12373 ip, but I'm incredibly afraid to spend it on any runes. What if I choose the wrong ones? I want to experiment more with fiddlesticks. I hear, after his drain buff, he can now solo baron on purple side at 15 minutes. That is scary. I need to have the correct runes to try that. I want to try similar things, but what runes do I need for those things? There are so many runes that are so expensive I am afraid to pick any out because it limits my experimentation.

What's more, there aren't even replays, so if I see something I might have done wrong, I have to replicate the same thing over again (15 minutes to see if I can solo baron at 15 minutes? And I need to try it many times in order to finally get it right?)

With incorrect information because of lack of runes affecting my decision making, I can not do many of the things I want to do.

Edited by LysIs514, 06 November 2010 - 07:40 PM.

[Tree_]

You'll play with fellow level 1 - 10s, at highest. No one you play with will ever have a distinct advantage over you.

1-10 is a fair stretch when you consider in (To use a terrible example) WoW at low level PvP BG's are usually only played by level 19's, 29's, 39's, etcetc all the way up until 80 creating balance throughout the different spectrum's of levels. Even in QuakeLive the matchmaking is setup so that the servers only allow you to join if you're in Tier 1/2/3/4/5. EG: If you are Tier 1 you can only join Tier 1 servers, Tier 2 can only join Tier 2, etcetc. The fact that those who have had more time in the game and can therefor play with other people who have had a chance to buy runes still means some players have a disadvantage over others in the lower levels creating unbalanced play...

Edit: And just to point something out, not that it really matters, i'm indifferent towards the game. I actually play it but only because it's fun and an alternative to HoN which is no longer free after the beta which sucks. If HoN was free i'd play it over this in a heartbeat but LoL is a good fuck around game ... Although the idea of taking it seriously is hilarious.

[TheShadowNinja]

Basically, what can be summarized is that LoL is truly terrible in the competitive sense.
It is the ultimate form of casual DotA.

However, it's fun for that reason too, when you play it occasionally and don't take your competitive views further than ranked.

[j type]

The fuck does this even have to do with what were talking about then? It's expected that one would put that much time into an MMO otherwise ... It wouldn't really be your typical MMO. Can you even name one Massively Multi-player game where you start off with good gear? That's just the way the genre works and always has.

So, MMOs are exempt from that because that's how they've always done it? The relatively small and recent genre occupied by Dota/HoN/LoL doesn't have to follow the same rules as say an RTS game (which is the example you gave with Warcraft 4). I don't know why you're getting so stuck on this.

You can play the game casually and not drop a penny in to it. You can also compete at a high level without spending a penny on it (I know this, because I myself and a few others like me, competed at top level during the beta and soon after the games release, on smurf accounts and nothing unlocked with real money)

If you play it a lot, then yes, you are spending time on it, but this is the same with every single game out there. Your argument is baffling. Free means no money. If you're brining time into the equation, then no game is free.


edit- and yea you're getting a bit confused about the matchmaking system in LoL. You don't just jump in to it and get matched with the top level players, that would be ridiculous and unfair. You get matched with people of your skill level so that there is never an unfair advantage to be had by those who spent money on the game.

Edited by j type, 07 November 2010 - 01:58 AM.

[Casualguy]

Casualguy, if you are arguing LoL is more active than dota or HoN, I can't argue with you any longer. LoL is the most boring piece of garbage at competitive levels, and always has been, through imbalances like kayle/twitch, twisted fate, aoe-stacking, healstacking, healstacking/kiting teams, and fucking ezreal himself. Okay, you might argue that prior to banning pick, there can't be an imbalance because you can have the same teams on each side.

Well then it is boring gameplay. As I said, healstacking and kiting pretty much revolved around taric/janna/ezreal/ashe/soraka. The entire team revolves around kiting and not dying, and if a bad situation EVER comes up, janna ults, which resets teamfights. The only way to win was to do boring things better.

How about now, when more than ever dominant strategies revolve around farming? How about now, when CLG beat AS in wcg2010 purely because they had better picks and bans?

Go look at any HoN game. Ganks happen, and they WORK. People actually die. Lots of good games of HoN I saw there are more deaths than there were minutes in the game.

How many major tournaments have been made in LoL since its release? Maybe 5 I can count. How many for HoN? I'm pretty sure more than twice that amount are going on right now.

You are what, 1300 rating?

You don't know what competitive play is, you've never done it.
LoL is a working game, they are getting more competitive has the month go on. You may not of heard, but when season 2 comes around, they are having a $100 000 tournament.

If a couple of runes are holding you back from winning a single match, well then, its the runes... Its your skill.

HoN is just a clone of DotA, its all the same stuff. This is why HoN is more competitive at this time. The reason so is because DotA took about 5 years to ever start getting competitive. HoN just used what DotA had and brought it over to HoN (which failed).

League of Legends is rising, while DotA and HoN and falling.

[LysIs514]

First of all, I don't need to actually play at top levels to understand what it is like. VoD's are pretty cool like that.
I used to play with council members because I have a real-life friend who was in it. He quit because he is now playing HoN.

And I don't want to have to keep repeating this again. Individual games don't matter, and runes have very small effects on the game, most of the time too small to observe. But there are times when they do, and boowhoo, I might lose a game because of it. I don't give a shit.
I do care about learning incorrect things because I find that a thing is impossible, when in reality it is, but I will not find out anytime soon because I do not have 9 of every mark, seal, or glyph, or 3 of every quint.

In draft mode, you can not pick a champion if you don't own it, so with trading (why wasn't draft mode released with trading?) you can not even ban and pick optimally. It begins before the game even starts!

[TheShadowNinja]

First of all, I don't need to actually play at top levels to understand what it is like. VoD's are pretty cool like that.
I used to play with council members because I have a real-life friend who was in it. He quit because he is now playing HoN.

And I don't want to have to keep repeating this again. Individual games don't matter, and runes have very small effects on the game, most of the time too small to observe. But there are times when they do, and boowhoo, I might lose a game because of it. I don't give a shit.
I do care about learning incorrect things because I find that a thing is impossible, when in reality it is, but I will not find out anytime soon because I do not have 9 of every mark, seal, or glyph, or 3 of every quint.

In draft mode, you can not pick a champion if you don't own it, so with trading (why wasn't draft mode released with trading?) you can not even ban and pick optimally. It begins before the game even starts!

Look up theorycrafting.
If you're that serious about that game, that should be the first thing you look for.
People have done the math and most of the time, you're switching between maybe 3 or 4 types of each rune if you want to specialize it for each hero.

There are very few characters that don't take ArP/Magic Pen marks, for example.

[LysIs514]

Lots of warwicks are running this weird composition of attackspeed and armor pen marks for dragon at 3mins

[FrostFenix]

This game is sorta fun, but when they do the same thing every month, (release a hero, dont work on glitches, bugs, etc). I just kinda care less about it. Like seriously, how many champions are they going to release before they finish optimizing what they have. For example champions that take no skill to play, theres like 6-8 of those already and you have to be really stupid in order for you to mess that champ up. (Of course there are some) Yeah I'm the type to play some difficult or skill worthy champs like Nasus, Teemo, or Tryndamere (yes he does require skill in the beginning, properly fed he just becomes op) and I do win games, and not just pub stomping actually just random teams and carrying those teams to victory. But you can only get so good to the point to where its just herp derp rune mastery crafting.

Dota and HoN actually have more competitive elements (Denying really is important no matter what anyone says) and require less repetitive games in order to "level up" or "earn points to buy champs".

I'm simply waiting for Dota2 that steam is working on and make my final decision there, but for LoL, its fun for a while but same ol crap after you've gotten good at the game.

[Zupa Bob]

How much do you get paid Casualguy to advertise LoL? I've never seen such hardcore fan boying in my life.

I've played both HoN and LoL. HoN just feels more rewarding to me when I win. The game has much more depth, an example of this is juking. In HoN there is night / day, tree jukes, and hatchet jukes. In LoL there is some tall grass shit...................

[x_byakugan_x]

So how about that starcraft 2 SOTIS...

[Cure]

Guys, I got some Runes free with my mouse. I have no idea what a rune is but if anyone wants the code PM me and I'll send them your way. First come first serve.

EDIT: Yozki claimed it.

Edited by Cure, 13 November 2010 - 12:13 PM.

[LysIs514]

Yozki raped our women and defiled my people's land.

[HikariKage]

Yozki raped our women and defiled my people's land.

]Your Mother Is a Hamster and Your Father Smells of Elderberries.

[LysIs514]

[j type]

Dem Phantom Dancers...

[Snormy]

Big man

Edited by Snormy, 06 December 2010 - 09:45 PM.